From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Tom Tromey Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: document package.el Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2010 19:40:17 -0600 Message-ID: References: <83bp9ex3ro.fsf@gnu.org> <83r5hrol3f.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1282441231 15485 80.91.229.12 (22 Aug 2010 01:40:31 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2010 01:40:31 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Aug 22 03:40:29 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OmzXw-0003Ji-UP for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 22 Aug 2010 03:40:29 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49315 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OmzXv-0001xn-8B for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 21 Aug 2010 21:40:27 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=45428 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OmzXq-0001xi-8s for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 21 Aug 2010 21:40:23 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OmzXp-0006VY-9f for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 21 Aug 2010 21:40:22 -0400 Original-Received: from mx1.redhat.com ([209.132.183.28]:56879) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OmzXp-0006VQ-2s; Sat, 21 Aug 2010 21:40:21 -0400 Original-Received: from int-mx08.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com (int-mx08.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com [10.5.11.21]) by mx1.redhat.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o7M1eJ7J027776 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 21 Aug 2010 21:40:19 -0400 Original-Received: from ns3.rdu.redhat.com (ns3.rdu.redhat.com [10.11.255.199]) by int-mx08.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o7M1eI0s028178; Sat, 21 Aug 2010 21:40:18 -0400 Original-Received: from opsy.redhat.com (ovpn01.gateway.prod.ext.phx2.redhat.com [10.5.9.1]) by ns3.rdu.redhat.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o7M1eHYu003380; Sat, 21 Aug 2010 21:40:18 -0400 Original-Received: by opsy.redhat.com (Postfix, from userid 500) id 6F85137897B; Sat, 21 Aug 2010 19:40:17 -0600 (MDT) X-Attribution: Tom In-Reply-To: <83r5hrol3f.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sat, 21 Aug 2010 21:51:32 +0300") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.2 (gnu/linux) X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.67 on 10.5.11.21 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:129001 Archived-At: >>>>> "Eli" == Eli Zaretskii writes: Eli> Most environments that have Emacs also have the external programs Eli> needed for the other formats. ... but some don't. Eli> "Only packagers"? What about a package I downloaded from elsewhere? Eli> I don't expect many packages nowadays to come in a .tar format. I don't know what packages you could possibly mean. Packages for use with package.el must be packaged according to the rules imposed by package.el. Of these rules, use of .tar is a trivial one, the other impose a lot more burden. Users of package.el generally install packages from the package archive, via the package menu mode. They don't generally just download random .tar files. And, if they did -- so what? The .tar is just the distribution format. Tom> + If the package has an info manual, you should distribute the needed Tom> +info files, plus a @file{dir} file made with @command{install-info}. Eli> Not clear why the `dir' file is needed. Are you trying to support Eli> users that don't have install-info on their systems? Tom> Yes. Eli> Why? My goal in writing package.el was a seamless user experience. I tried hard to minimize the number of error modes that a user could see. Hence: * Use of .tar and not anything else, even .tar.gz -- because .tar can be unpacked entirely in elisp. * Use of package dependencies, to make it so you can't install a package and have it not work. * Before I upload a package I also generally make a point of looking at how it is activated, looking at least for autoload cookies. The general theme is to make packagers do a bit more work so that users get a better experience. Tom