From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: joakim@verona.se Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: On the subject of Git, Bazaar, and the future of Emacs development Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2013 08:53:01 +0100 Message-ID: References: <87hajxqlly.fsf@yandex.ru> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1364457208 23846 80.91.229.3 (28 Mar 2013 07:53:28 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2013 07:53:28 +0000 (UTC) Cc: lekktu@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, John Yates To: Richard Stallman Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Mar 28 08:53:54 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1UL7ed-0001xh-TD for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 28 Mar 2013 08:53:48 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:56262 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UL7eF-0004vb-Mh for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 28 Mar 2013 03:53:23 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:51844) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UL7eC-0004vQ-Gc for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 28 Mar 2013 03:53:21 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UL7eA-0006Oj-SE for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 28 Mar 2013 03:53:20 -0400 Original-Received: from mx1.bahnhof.se ([213.80.101.11]:62025) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UL7eA-0006Nq-HE; Thu, 28 Mar 2013 03:53:18 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost (mf.bahnhof.se [213.80.101.20]) by mx1-reinject (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CB4329601B; Thu, 28 Mar 2013 08:53:17 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new using ClamAV at bahnhof.se (MF3) Original-Received: from mf3.bahnhof.se ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mf3.bahnhof.se [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QtnqXwzge790; Thu, 28 Mar 2013 08:53:12 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from mta.verona.se (h-235-102.a149.priv.bahnhof.se [85.24.235.102]) by mf3.bahnhof.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B702605053; Thu, 28 Mar 2013 08:53:12 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by mta.verona.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6633F4E2E63; Thu, 28 Mar 2013 07:53:02 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at verona Original-Received: from mta.verona.se ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (exodia.verona.se [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iABU2pSGMuEm; Thu, 28 Mar 2013 08:53:01 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from chopper.vpn.verona.se (DIR-655.verona.se [192.168.200.86]) by mta.verona.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 660134E0166; Thu, 28 Mar 2013 08:53:01 +0100 (CET) In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Thu, 28 Mar 2013 00:20:48 -0400") User-Agent: Gnus/5.130006 (Ma Gnus v0.6) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Mac OS X 10.x X-Received-From: 213.80.101.11 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:158340 Archived-At: Richard Stallman writes: > I am surprised no one has mentioned in this thread the parade of > erstwhile bzr developers (including Martin Pool) who have admitted on > the bzr mailing list that they have abandoned the project and why. > > I know that Martin Pool no longer works on Bzr. He never told me why, > but I think that Canonical decided to stop funding its development > very much. > > I don't have time to read the Bzr mailing list. Or any development > mailing list. The only such list I am on is this one, and the only > reason I can be on this ls is that I don't follow most of the questions > that come up. You might as well tell me to fly to the moon as tell > me to read something on the Bzr list. > > I read http://stationary-traveller.eu/pages/bzr-a-retrospective.htmlbefore. It says many useful things but does not say anything about > the crucial question: whether Bzr is maintained enough or not. Isn't it a reasonable position that the users of bzr have say in wether bzr is sufficiently maintained or not? I have done my best to be a constructive user of the tool, and I have had many technical difficulties. When I try to find solutions to the issues I notice the following: - The bzr community is very helpful. This is good. - There are many well known bugs. There are also many well known patches for these, some of them provided by Emacs developers. They never enter upstream. By "never" I mean years. This is bad. The situation generates a lot of frustration. Anyway, from here one can discuss solutions. I think most of them have been discussed more than once. Heres my take: - Accept losses with bzr. Life goes on. - Use Git as a technical interim solution. - Incrementally produce a GNU-Git, which is maintained by GNU The initial versions of this new implementaiton could use libgit2, which is LGPLV2. Eventually the library could be rewritten as GPLV3 if deemed necessary. (OTOH using libgit2 doesnt seem worse than using Python as bzr does), The new implementation could also use Guile, which would support an important GNU project. So, thats IMHO a reasonable idea. I only have very small resources to devote personally towards it though. -- Joakim Verona