From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Barry Fishman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs vista build failures Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 19:52:18 -0400 Message-ID: References: <871w1njq32.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <87iquzxgtk.fsf@saeurebad.de> <4884CFEF.8040404@gmail.com> <48861A51.1090401@gmail.com> <20080724080727.GA3448@muc.de> <863alzd1mi.fsf@lola.quinscape.zz> <20080726080304.GA1419@muc.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1217117130 4716 80.91.229.12 (27 Jul 2008 00:05:30 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 00:05:30 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Jul 27 02:06:20 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1KMtm3-0008FN-5x for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 27 Jul 2008 02:06:07 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55133 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KMtl9-0002HS-DQ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 26 Jul 2008 20:05:11 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KMtl4-0002HN-2d for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 26 Jul 2008 20:05:06 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KMtl2-0002HA-Ic for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 26 Jul 2008 20:05:05 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=36712 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KMtl2-0002H6-ET for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 26 Jul 2008 20:05:04 -0400 Original-Received: from main.gmane.org ([80.91.229.2]:48183 helo=ciao.gmane.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KMtl1-0002e7-Su for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 26 Jul 2008 20:05:04 -0400 Original-Received: from root by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1KMtl0-0003X4-KH for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 27 Jul 2008 00:05:02 +0000 Original-Received: from fl-71-0-147-208.dhcp.embarqhsd.net ([71.0.147.208]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sun, 27 Jul 2008 00:05:02 +0000 Original-Received: from barry_fishman by fl-71-0-147-208.dhcp.embarqhsd.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sun, 27 Jul 2008 00:05:02 +0000 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 39 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: fl-71-0-147-208.dhcp.embarqhsd.net User-Agent: Gnus/5.110011 (No Gnus v0.11) Emacs/23.0.60 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:07zfp2TgFz40XyittFv4wbsj870= X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:101568 Archived-At: Richard M Stallman writes: > Hmm. What if that software written on w32 has satisfied users? > > Our mission is not "satisfying users", it is establishing freedom. > > There are users who do not think their freedom is very important, and > they may feel satisfied using proprietary software. (It isn't ALL > badly written.) But that doesn't make the proprietary software a good > thing. > > Freedom is important even if some people don't understand this, and > taking away people's freedom is bad even if they are foolish enough > not to care. We do not judge right and wrong by their standards. I think you may be loosing sight of some things by still focusing just on gaining freedom. A GNU system now exists that people can use reliably and productively. Many of us prefer it over the proprietary alternatives, even if they were free. Isn't that real freedom. For many of us you have already won. The FSF seems to behave as if this wasn't true. So much effort still seems to be put into porting prorietary garbage like .NET to GNU, and producing a Gnome windowing environment which has all the faults of MS-Windows. Why not concentrate on producing something better. Emacs is far nicer to work with than GNOME. So why the interest in making Emacs fit in to this inferior MS-Windows like environment. Why not make GNOME work more like Emacs. Whats the point of a C based GTK it you don't use it through a Lisp like layer? Why is so much of my Gnome configuration buried in zillions of directories filled with ugly XML files. Why can't I query it with simple REPL? I don't have problems with porting Emacs to Vista. My problem is with this strong desire to port Vista to GNU. -- Barry Fishman