From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Leo Liu Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Why aren't `find`, `find-if`, `remove-if` part of Emacs Lisp? Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2014 12:08:37 +0800 Message-ID: References: <87d2e78nn7.fsf@gmail.com> <87bntr8jtc.fsf@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1403669363 9571 80.91.229.3 (25 Jun 2014 04:09:23 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2014 04:09:23 +0000 (UTC) Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Jun 25 06:09:16 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1WzeWJ-0007nH-Le for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 25 Jun 2014 06:09:15 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:34980 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WzeWJ-0001mL-2Y for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 25 Jun 2014 00:09:15 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:56690) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WzeVw-0001m9-3j for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 25 Jun 2014 00:09:01 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WzeVn-00057c-2h for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 25 Jun 2014 00:08:52 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pa0-x22d.google.com ([2607:f8b0:400e:c03::22d]:55984) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WzeVm-00057X-RE for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 25 Jun 2014 00:08:42 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-pa0-f45.google.com with SMTP id rd3so1148105pab.18 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2014 21:08:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:face:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-type; bh=etmjV4tDfkpqhnEgvKk3xbubdYzsmQpIjabU+ZKv3sM=; b=ctSrZb2JhwH3nLdBbD3jiBnmqGW37XdBVtxBY3L/5excCUuEltWZYdc+/UP9YhoMu4 LevJ/VXE/5ZgCUJ5fj0CLUfo8C+amWJ59SqRfjp2YxHjFKo0kPtCCu+d63yg9KypoITd LroBU7iFcZow7PrioXtt8kcDGfZOOfaKJXRUR6NNph1TDASVG+wkQY5NsfRBsVVtS+3g zJhuh9acHfkoHcdWuIwR8AgLaWz1ZjXF6JAoRROyF4hmIPCcKY8r10NiG+p9ED0mK6RD 6Fjv0BCrVmbE7/ZTO/QuqZdBLfEOVgIZQgbc0kawKMzS+9spEp7eNqglU78Ot5T5stha ibqg== X-Received: by 10.66.246.138 with SMTP id xw10mr7574620pac.142.1403669321763; Tue, 24 Jun 2014 21:08:41 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from fortuna ([221.222.158.228]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id wk4sm11178759pab.5.2014.06.24.21.08.39 for (version=TLSv1.1 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 24 Jun 2014 21:08:41 -0700 (PDT) Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAACgAAAAoBAMAAAB+0KVeAAAAGFBMVEUzRVhbQj4eZqO6SjnT eWpxnMetm5b6/PmidmqrAAAAAWJLR0QAiAUdSAAAAAlwSFlzAAALEwAACxMBAJqcGAAAAAd0SU1F B9cBBwMLBfKABCMAAAFoSURBVCjPtZI9a8MwEIaFoc7aYDdelQMna0Em3tsSr0XUeE2Q6a22a+v+ fk8fSSBkbDUI6dHpfe9OEvRgiD+ApqKPJgJeB6iUUXWESjUe/ig38AJrhqqvaU2nTIXbNvOQ40fe qdry4kyGoVWsfCQalXpHnJGM01wjWdYbMlXNFdsZDO69m9aqNqxEJqTEgbM5OF7wlEfIoll1Ked4 LbM5X2EdILLokEdmI8z7g5cKED0cuTC930TYhy7ZDekkXVGw/L60TguJePPxcJF48lpsSUWEA/Ju jGFNgJOXc4Hz7TmAdBeu5Ve4AEjOi2/2jfd3cAJZ+IbNrvdjgBZY01b+HTuG3cLws6BJZqVOj/pp T0OqVwx3rFq+QmJwx3loK5JSLEhDIt62+mtC2C+SrAUxEbV6C6v2BRbd6pILBKFpepKZJHgGgrKF sptSUUoczpwg2pQ7ZH1tgs0ou/917mzz6Cs2//C978cv5l07L02orIEAAAAASUVORK5CYII= In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Tue, 24 Jun 2014 23:22:15 -0400") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.4.50 (CentOS 6.5) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:400e:c03::22d X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:98387 Archived-At: On 2014-06-24 23:22 -0400, Stefan Monnier wrote: > Agreed. They also work OK for macros since those are not supposed to be > executed at run-time. Keyword arguments are particularly problematic in > Elisp where the language implementations are all fairly simplistic with > very limited optimizations. > > > Stefan I think the issue with CL.el is it was castigated in the official manual too early. It isn't bloated by any standard today. There are many things in emacs that do less with more mess and bloat. For me I always pretend cl.el is preloaded and happily use it. It surprise me many times how thoughtful it is and I felt a bit of thrill when I reduced half of dozen lines of code to one with clever combination of arguments. Sometimes I take a moment to wonder how can those bastards foresee such a use case ;) Leo