From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Thomas Fitzsimmons Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: oauth2 support for Emacs email clients Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2021 10:41:20 -0400 Message-ID: References: <52589.36892.953561.24840@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <87pmuofpai.fsf@gnu.org> <87sfzk71xw.fsf@randomsample> <87k0kw6liw.fsf@randomsample> <87fsvk6i5e.fsf@randomsample> <87sfzhekgv.fsf@randomsample> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="39471"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, Roland Winkler , Richard Stallman To: David Engster Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Aug 10 16:42:27 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mDSxX-000A32-4M for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 10 Aug 2021 16:42:27 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:57532 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mDSxV-0005GW-JX for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 10 Aug 2021 10:42:25 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:59224) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mDSwZ-0004A4-EF for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 10 Aug 2021 10:41:27 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-qv1-xf2d.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::f2d]:35413) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mDSwW-0007aD-Kx for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 10 Aug 2021 10:41:27 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-qv1-xf2d.google.com with SMTP id 3so11025565qvd.2 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 2021 07:41:23 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fitzsim-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=wN4jBHlZNJ5UQee5L2LtKYx4r/BF5LchH8i4EU2ytbk=; b=uTvpZOIQmFFs+M2RhqPNGeNvqNHafObaIrYvOCCqNFTU4bZWnWbLCuV+OyJN2ndpoK xYz88TVleivtmIHtEi95VLnN+2+PCqK7kHxyCgElG5jgewU5vtbdlu0XQbRtWByymFOg UmwMyr8AS+jFl941Q9v1u4g89qlEhfR7BkYmukpYUnEJrg9FMzrAUugleAHvjdnWoFGU xszWNXTZZ1InK6zfu4gf7fXztquY3tvuBPQScwspElL4lXiv2NhQr1qGkTSxANcebwIk FGI2VYTVvjfqZTJEwHcbv9/CZL62jjrcigHMIe0XFos5G2zd6PMVXzR21j4LTValaowL RsjQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=wN4jBHlZNJ5UQee5L2LtKYx4r/BF5LchH8i4EU2ytbk=; b=f5UTt+M2muviMOB5iz/voFHCnA1uB916gmSW5UcDajX4ZrYgd0sk/zd+ykcoAnMyy0 y1Uj7vodjpJ24Ntkjn8GylbirPpS1R9r9d1M6DF4btVFWo/O1ol78UNMy6agYLw3OFII UllWi51WGaCAHSk0tcA1ZYKeYQqJjPqdOWpNI4QVkUgSQxZEAQPNePthb/drh1SZuQ7i XZ42icg3N0/qCFf7i9Ze85YqQVy7A4dVZ4zwdwQ42P9zYGmazvZLo1Xu1M0OxXqwQtAd JBJOwRoSpsY5caznGg2bce8EAbXipOP0ioOItDnYVd6cK9a/LXnEbNU851B8Kw/0Voc7 AmuQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532A7nIt7GniUPcR3a9Tn55oppQIKkYGH1wo+9m3fbNBlBEM8JY1 dMM5pEd6YLGdg76qanvxfhgf48FmeEDa5kVx X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwKuEdIpd+mihv1DA3fV4vgC50u5upd7TAhkvK5j/GZVi4CbS3vJLDqggMwOCO+w5bNVxztng== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6214:2247:: with SMTP id c7mr18192927qvc.52.1628606482366; Tue, 10 Aug 2021 07:41:22 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from localhost.localdomain (69-165-165-189.dsl.teksavvy.com. [69.165.165.189]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id p19sm7844210qtk.75.2021.08.10.07.41.21 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 10 Aug 2021 07:41:21 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <87sfzhekgv.fsf@randomsample> (David Engster's message of "Tue, 10 Aug 2021 11:07:44 +0200") Received-SPF: none client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::f2d; envelope-from=fitzsim@fitzsim.org; helo=mail-qv1-xf2d.google.com X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_score: 0.0 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: (0.0 / 5.0 requ) DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:272281 Archived-At: David Engster writes: >> It depends on the organization, I guess. My organization has IMAP >> enabled. To use Thunderbird, I attempted to authenticate IMAP using >> OAuth. The administrator received a request for access from >> "Thunderbird" (identified by Thunderbird's Microsoft-assigned globally >> unique identifier (GUID)), which they granted, after which I could use >> Thunderbird with IMAP. > > You're lucky. :-) Yes, I'm lucky in that my organization listened to me when I requested that they leave IMAP and SMTP enabled during the transition to OAuth (there was a proposal to disable IMAP and SMTP, and an apparent perception that those protocols would only work with basic authentication, which I helped correct). I would recommend that others in organizations with Microsoft email servers make similar requests to their administrators. I suspect the request process would be easier for Emacs users if the administrators saw "Emacs ()" in the OAuth message. >> I haven't tried yet, but I suspect using Emacs in my organization would >> be harder because, what GUID would I use? > > Well, you could just use Thunderbird's. It's all right here: > > https://github.com/mozilla/releases-comm-central/blob/master/mailnews/base/src/OAuth2Providers.jsm > > You shouldn't though, because that could get you in trouble. > > While all this stuff is essentially security theatre, good luck > explaining that to your IT security department... I explained to my IT administrator that I'd like to use Emacs for email. Others should too. There's no shame in it. :-) The FSF should do the legal legwork to figure out a best practice for using Emacs and OAuth with Microsoft email servers, like Thunderbird apparently has. Otherwise, how can we officially document how to configure Emacs for such servers? >From what you've found, it sounds like a viable approach would be for the FSF to register Emacs with Microsoft as a public client application, then we'd default a defcustom in oauth2.el to Emacs's Microsoft-assigned GUID. Thomas