From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: James Cloos Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: arrow keys vs. C-f/b/n/p Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 06:17:36 -0400 Message-ID: References: <87d3w2ncqs.fsf_-_@lola.goethe.zz> <87iq5py7xk.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <83hbl8li1o.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1276338718 31968 80.91.229.12 (12 Jun 2010 10:31:58 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 10:31:58 +0000 (UTC) Cc: cyd@stupidchicken.com, dak@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jun 12 12:31:56 2010 connect(): No such file or directory Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ONO0E-00033W-T5 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 12:31:55 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55182 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ONO0C-0001bZ-19 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 06:31:48 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=59615 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ONNzy-0001ZA-Gc for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 06:31:36 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ONNzu-00015K-Jx for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 06:31:33 -0400 Original-Received: from eagle.jhcloos.com ([207.210.242.212]:50861) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ONNzr-00014d-Rt; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 06:31:27 -0400 Original-Received: by eagle.jhcloos.com (Postfix, from userid 10) id BE25B402B0; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 10:31:02 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=jhcloos.com; s=eagle; t=1276338686; bh=u5l0/1+v7KO0vDvv36dq/Ctipuv9oSmLR7gANwaRQTM=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:Message-ID: MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=QuUBe2AcIt0O8B8fW6fofxteg0h6hg+jjXzVGi+ZhTWzNhw+pW+GawoNjWEaTcXwU 7Poaa+GFtfqO0OYTqk8Z+qyigtmaLBGsBCCK9wUuK+mnfeGPfAw0JstEdwmRzyFOjd ivlmETc+cXHl5Ste/YNaDvPWfVS2qv3k0sH5nJSw= Original-Received: from carbon.jhcloos.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by carbon.jhcloos.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 831481C3252; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 10:17:36 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: <83hbl8li1o.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sat, 12 Jun 2010 12:24:51 +0300") User-Agent: Gnus/5.110011 (No Gnus v0.11) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAABAAAAAQCAYAAAAf8/9hAAAABHNCSVQICAgIfAhkiAAAAI1J REFUOE+lU9ESgCAIg64P1y+ngUdxhl5H8wFbbM0OmUiEhKkCYaZThXCo6KE5sCbA1DDX3genvO4d eBQgEMaM5qy6uWk4SfBYfdu9jvBN9nSVDOKRtwb+I3epboOsOX5pZbJNsBJFvmQQ05YMfieIBnYX FK2N6dOawd97r/e8RjkTLzmMsiVgrAoEugtviCM3v2WzjgAAAABJRU5ErkJggg== Copyright: Copyright 2009 James Cloos OpenPGP: ED7DAEA6; url=http://jhcloos.com/public_key/0xED7DAEA6.asc OpenPGP-Fingerprint: E9E9 F828 61A4 6EA9 0F2B 63E7 997A 9F17 ED7D AEA6 Original-Lines: 51 X-Hashcash: 1:30:100612:eliz@gnu.org::pPGuDd9y4g87IZCE:00006AVMu X-Hashcash: 1:30:100612:cyd@stupidchicken.com::CnnDAcpGrO3U2TXi:0000000000000000000000000000000000000007cbTN X-Hashcash: 1:30:100612:dak@gnu.org::mYe4CKGBEjXCXKLu:00000xGPLO X-Hashcash: 1:30:100612:emacs-devel@gnu.org::2vo2wV0TkJE0x7cB:00000000000000000000000000000000000000000+XHqx X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:125803 Archived-At: >>>>> "EZ" == Eli Zaretskii writes: >> In gedit C-f and C-b move forward and backward logically, whereas LEFT >> and RIGHT move left and right visually. EZ> Please be more specific, after reading my message where I presented EZ> the definitions relevant to this thread. Emacs currently implements EZ> only the logical-mode motion, both with C-f/C-b and with arrow keys. I used logically and visually correctly. >> In seamonkey, in a web-page's text input box, both the arrow keys and >> the C-b and C-f keys move visually. EZ> A useless mode, if you ask me. Agreed. I was just reporting what occurred when I tried it out, for everything I could think of which I had installed on this box and which had -- or should have -- some bidi-awareness. >> In gvim, both the h and l keys and the arrow keys move visually. EZ> Please don't consider Vim a bidi-aware application. All Vim does is EZ> simple reversal of text on the screen. It has no idea what to reverse EZ> and what not, and neither does it support UAX#9. It's small wonder it EZ> can only support visual-order movement. OK. I knew that it could compose correctly and at first blush seemed aware. But again this was just reporting what occurrec when I tried cursor movement w/in a r2l paragraph. >> In Openoffice.org, the arrow keys move logically. EZ> Again, please be more specific: what does the left arrow key do in a EZ> R2L paragraph? Does it go backwards in the text, eventually ending up EZ> at the first text character, or does it go forward? Again, I used the terms correctly. If I wrote logically then the RIGHT key moved forward in reading direction and the LEFT backward. I will that OOo's cursor (a line at which the next char will insert) changes when there is bidi text; a tail at its top points in the reading direction of the surounding text. Apologies if any of the above seems short.... -JimC -- James Cloos OpenPGP: 1024D/ED7DAEA6