* Re: Adding BBDB 3 core to Emacs
2015-11-21 16:56 ` Adding BBDB 3 core to Emacs John Wiegley
@ 2015-11-21 17:11 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-11-21 19:59 ` Thomas Fitzsimmons
2015-11-21 20:02 ` Roland Winkler
2015-11-21 19:37 ` Thomas Fitzsimmons
2015-11-21 22:22 ` Roland Winkler
2 siblings, 2 replies; 31+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2015-11-21 17:11 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: John Wiegley; +Cc: gmcninch, fitzsim, winkler, bbdb-info, emacs-devel
> From: John Wiegley <jwiegley@gmail.com>
> Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2015 08:56:49 -0800
> Cc: George McNinch <gmcninch@gmail.com>, Roland Winkler <winkler@gnu.org>,
> bbdb-info@lists.sourceforge.net, emacs-devel@gnu.org
>
> >>>>> Thomas Fitzsimmons <fitzsim@fitzsim.org> writes:
>
> > I really like this idea. Then we could count on BBDB 3 (core) being in Emacs
> > core. We could fix EUDC to always enable the BBDB backend by default,
> > include an Info node in the manual for BBDB itself and fix the EUDC Info
> > nodes to be BBDB 3-specific.
>
> I would much prefer this to be in "tarball ELPA", so that it is included in
> the distribution, but not a focus for the other developers. Would there be any
> need to include it within core itself?
Didn't BBDB have some copyright issues that precluded its distribution
with Emacs or under the same license? (Apologies if I'm
misremembering.)
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread
* Re: Adding BBDB 3 core to Emacs
2015-11-21 17:11 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2015-11-21 19:59 ` Thomas Fitzsimmons
2015-11-23 2:03 ` Richard Stallman
2015-11-21 20:02 ` Roland Winkler
1 sibling, 1 reply; 31+ messages in thread
From: Thomas Fitzsimmons @ 2015-11-21 19:59 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: John Wiegley, gmcninch, winkler, bbdb-info, emacs-devel
Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
>> From: John Wiegley <jwiegley@gmail.com>
>> Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2015 08:56:49 -0800
>> Cc: George McNinch <gmcninch@gmail.com>, Roland Winkler <winkler@gnu.org>,
>> bbdb-info@lists.sourceforge.net, emacs-devel@gnu.org
>>
>> >>>>> Thomas Fitzsimmons <fitzsim@fitzsim.org> writes:
>>
>> > I really like this idea. Then we could count on BBDB 3 (core) being in Emacs
>> > core. We could fix EUDC to always enable the BBDB backend by default,
>> > include an Info node in the manual for BBDB itself and fix the EUDC Info
>> > nodes to be BBDB 3-specific.
>>
>> I would much prefer this to be in "tarball ELPA", so that it is included in
>> the distribution, but not a focus for the other developers. Would there be any
>> need to include it within core itself?
>
> Didn't BBDB have some copyright issues that precluded its distribution
> with Emacs or under the same license? (Apologies if I'm
> misremembering.)
I'm not aware of any licensing issues. All the files in BBDB 2.x are
either GPLv2 or any later version, or GPLv1 or any later version.
Most BBDB 2.x contributors have not signed FSF copyright assignment
papers though. From what I've read, there have been attempts to get
paperwork for all BBDB contributors in the past, but they were
unsuccessful.
However, BBDB 3 represents a rewrite of the core portions of the
codebase by Roland. I did a comparison between BBDB 2.x and BBDB 3
within the last year. The core parts seem significantly different to
me, and Roland considers them in the clear now.
The proposal here is to split BBDB 3 into two portions; the "bbdb-core"
portion, and a "bbdb-extras" portion for code that is not
copyright-assigned. "bbdb-core" would be acceptable from a copyright
perspective for inclusion in Emacs core or GNU ELPA.
Thomas
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread
* Re: Adding BBDB 3 core to Emacs
2015-11-21 19:59 ` Thomas Fitzsimmons
@ 2015-11-23 2:03 ` Richard Stallman
0 siblings, 0 replies; 31+ messages in thread
From: Richard Stallman @ 2015-11-23 2:03 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Thomas Fitzsimmons
Cc: jwiegley, winkler, bbdb-info, emacs-devel, gmcninch, eliz
[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]
> However, BBDB 3 represents a rewrite of the core portions of the
> codebase by Roland. I did a comparison between BBDB 2.x and BBDB 3
> within the last year. The core parts seem significantly different to
> me, and Roland considers them in the clear now.
> The proposal here is to split BBDB 3 into two portions; the "bbdb-core"
> portion, and a "bbdb-extras" portion for code that is not
> copyright-assigned. "bbdb-core" would be acceptable from a copyright
> perspective for inclusion in Emacs core or GNU ELPA.
That's a fine plan. I am glad this is now possible.
--
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation (gnu.org, fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (internethalloffame.org)
Skype: No way! See stallman.org/skype.html.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread
* Re: Adding BBDB 3 core to Emacs
2015-11-21 17:11 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-11-21 19:59 ` Thomas Fitzsimmons
@ 2015-11-21 20:02 ` Roland Winkler
2015-11-22 7:02 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
1 sibling, 1 reply; 31+ messages in thread
From: Roland Winkler @ 2015-11-21 20:02 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: John Wiegley, gmcninch, fitzsim, bbdb-info, emacs-devel
On Sat Nov 21 2015 Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> Didn't BBDB have some copyright issues that precluded its
> distribution with Emacs or under the same license? (Apologies if
> I'm misremembering.)
No, you are perfectly right. BBDB v2 *did* have copyright issues.
BBDB v3 on savannah.nongnu.org is essentially a complete rewrite,
where all authors who contributed new code to BBDB v3 assigned their
copyright to the FSF. This covers the core of BBDB v3. A few loose
ends include add-ons to the core of BBDB which survived the upgrade
to v3. Now the question is how to deal with the current situation.
The proposal is to integrate the core of BBDB v3 more tightly with
GNU Emacs, yet there is more than one option for this: either the
core of BBDB becomes part of GNU Emacs itself or it goes into GNU
Elpa. (In either case the "loose ends" can stay in
savannah.nongnu.org till hopefully one day their cases are resolved,
too. But that's obviously less urgent.)
Roland
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread
* Re: Adding BBDB 3 core to Emacs
2015-11-21 20:02 ` Roland Winkler
@ 2015-11-22 7:02 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-11-22 15:33 ` Roland Winkler
0 siblings, 1 reply; 31+ messages in thread
From: Stephen J. Turnbull @ 2015-11-22 7:02 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Roland Winkler
Cc: John Wiegley, fitzsim, bbdb-info, emacs-devel, gmcninch,
Eli Zaretskii
Roland Winkler writes:
> No, you are perfectly right. BBDB v2 *did* have copyright issues.
BBDB v3 still has issues, as it has a complex API which is under
previous copyright AFAIK.
> BBDB v3 on savannah.nongnu.org is essentially a complete rewrite,
"Essentially" as understood by programmers is rarely anything close to
what a lawyer thinks of as an independent work not considered a
derivative. I doubt *any* of the newly assigned work was done without
looking at the original, and very likely most still uses original
internal variable names, structures, algorithms, etc. You'd better
check with the lawyers.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread
* Re: Adding BBDB 3 core to Emacs
2015-11-22 7:02 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
@ 2015-11-22 15:33 ` Roland Winkler
2015-11-22 16:14 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
0 siblings, 1 reply; 31+ messages in thread
From: Roland Winkler @ 2015-11-22 15:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Stephen J. Turnbull
Cc: John Wiegley, Eli Zaretskii, fitzsim, bbdb-info, emacs-devel
On Sun Nov 22 2015 Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> > BBDB v3 on savannah.nongnu.org is essentially a complete rewrite,
>
> "Essentially" as understood by programmers is rarely anything
> close to what a lawyer thinks of as an independent work not
> considered a derivative. I doubt *any* of the newly assigned work
> was done without looking at the original, and very likely most
> still uses original internal variable names, structures,
> algorithms, etc. You'd better check with the lawyers.
Have you looked at the new code?
Roland
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread
* Re: Adding BBDB 3 core to Emacs
2015-11-22 15:33 ` Roland Winkler
@ 2015-11-22 16:14 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-11-22 21:42 ` Roland Winkler
2015-11-23 2:05 ` Richard Stallman
0 siblings, 2 replies; 31+ messages in thread
From: Stephen J. Turnbull @ 2015-11-22 16:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Roland Winkler; +Cc: John Wiegley, bbdb-info, emacs-devel
Roland Winkler writes:
> Have you looked at the new code?
I don't need to; I trust you that 'most every line has been changed,
and many functions completely rewritten. The point is that old
configuration works with very little change with the new code.
Therefore it stinks of "derivative work" to me.
I'm just saying somebody should get the opinion of someone whose nose
knows the difference between "derivative work" and "Chanel No. 5".
IANAL and TINLA: I don't claim to.
Regards,
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread
* Re: Adding BBDB 3 core to Emacs
2015-11-22 16:14 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
@ 2015-11-22 21:42 ` Roland Winkler
2015-11-23 1:47 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-11-23 2:05 ` Richard Stallman
1 sibling, 1 reply; 31+ messages in thread
From: Roland Winkler @ 2015-11-22 21:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Stephen J. Turnbull; +Cc: John Wiegley, bbdb-info, emacs-devel
On Mon Nov 23 2015 Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> > Have you looked at the new code?
>
> I don't need to; I trust you that 'most every line has been changed,
> and many functions completely rewritten. The point is that old
> configuration works with very little change with the new code.
> Therefore it stinks of "derivative work" to me.
Your view would never allow a program like libreoffice to come into
existence.
(Users who switched from old to new BBDB suffered a lot in the sense
that none of their old configurations worked anymore. But our
current discussion was a major reason not to worry about the old
code base.)
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread
* Re: Adding BBDB 3 core to Emacs
2015-11-22 21:42 ` Roland Winkler
@ 2015-11-23 1:47 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-11-23 9:04 ` David Kastrup
0 siblings, 1 reply; 31+ messages in thread
From: Stephen J. Turnbull @ 2015-11-23 1:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Roland Winkler; +Cc: John Wiegley, bbdb-info, emacs-devel
Roland Winkler writes:
> On Mon Nov 23 2015 Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> > > Have you looked at the new code?
> >
> > I don't need to; I trust you that 'most every line has been changed,
> > and many functions completely rewritten. The point is that old
> > configuration works with very little change with the new code.
> > Therefore it stinks of "derivative work" to me.
>
> Your view
It's not "my view", it's Emacs project policy as designed by Richard
Stallman with the advice of the FSF lawyers. Ask the AUCTeX guys how
picky it gets. :-(
*My* view is that I have always disagreed with FSF legal strategy on
both philosophical and tactical grounds, but until the FSF changes its
position, I'm going to help it implement its policy. A united front
is far more important than my personal, non-expert opinion.
> would never allow a program like libreoffice to come into existence.
It's not what others can do with BBDB code that matters. AFAIK
there's no doubt that it's GPL. What matters is whether the FSF legal
staff can be convinced it's not encumbered by third-party copyrights.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread
* Re: Adding BBDB 3 core to Emacs
2015-11-23 1:47 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
@ 2015-11-23 9:04 ` David Kastrup
0 siblings, 0 replies; 31+ messages in thread
From: David Kastrup @ 2015-11-23 9:04 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Stephen J. Turnbull; +Cc: John Wiegley, Roland Winkler, bbdb-info, emacs-devel
"Stephen J. Turnbull" <stephen@xemacs.org> writes:
> Roland Winkler writes:
> > On Mon Nov 23 2015 Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> > > > Have you looked at the new code?
> > >
> > > I don't need to; I trust you that 'most every line has been
> > > changed, and many functions completely rewritten. The point is
> > > that old configuration works with very little change with the new
> > > code. Therefore it stinks of "derivative work" to me.
> >
> > Your view
>
> It's not "my view", it's Emacs project policy as designed by Richard
> Stallman with the advice of the FSF lawyers. Ask the AUCTeX guys how
> picky it gets. :-(
The AUCTeX guys did not have problems with reimplementations being
tagged as problematic. The principal problem was that we had about a
decade of loosely attributed work. We've managed to collect assignments
from all the known main contributors and past maintainers and most
people with known or unknown contributions (basically mentioned in the
"thanks" section but without an actual record, some not even remembering
that they should have contributed anything). So we are in "to the best
of our knowledge" territory with regard to assignments and fairly sure
that we can fill in any potential holes caused by people complaining
about AUCTeX's distribution under (c) FSF claims.
That was an ugly and ungrateful mess to deal with, but theories of weak
or strong derivation did not play into it. Yet. There were a few
rewrites from scratch for style files where the original author could no
longer be reached or bothered. Those files were basically "flat" with
regard to creative content, namely containing no tricky or high-quality
code or even any new data structures/algorithms.
So with regard to the problem you are talking about, AUCTeX does not
really provide any data point either way.
> > would never allow a program like libreoffice to come into
> > existence.
>
> It's not what others can do with BBDB code that matters. AFAIK
> there's no doubt that it's GPL. What matters is whether the FSF legal
> staff can be convinced it's not encumbered by third-party copyrights.
I have no knowledge of BBDB myself so I cannot sport an opinion on that.
--
David Kastrup
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread
* Re: Adding BBDB 3 core to Emacs
2015-11-22 16:14 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-11-22 21:42 ` Roland Winkler
@ 2015-11-23 2:05 ` Richard Stallman
2015-11-23 3:57 ` Roland Winkler
1 sibling, 1 reply; 31+ messages in thread
From: Richard Stallman @ 2015-11-23 2:05 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Stephen J. Turnbull; +Cc: jwiegley, winkler, bbdb-info, emacs-devel
[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]
The previous version of BBDB was released under GPL 2-or-later, right?
So it is no problem if a little remains that's under the copyright of the
authors of the previous version.
--
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation (gnu.org, fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (internethalloffame.org)
Skype: No way! See stallman.org/skype.html.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread
* Re: Adding BBDB 3 core to Emacs
2015-11-23 2:05 ` Richard Stallman
@ 2015-11-23 3:57 ` Roland Winkler
2015-11-23 16:10 ` Richard Stallman
0 siblings, 1 reply; 31+ messages in thread
From: Roland Winkler @ 2015-11-23 3:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Richard Stallman
Cc: John Wiegley, Stephen J. Turnbull, bbdb-info, emacs-devel
On Sun Nov 22 2015 Richard Stallman wrote:
> The previous version of BBDB was released under GPL 2-or-later, right?
According to http://bbdb.sourceforge.net, the last version of the
"old" BBDB was 2.35 released on January 30, 2007.
Most lisp files in this tar ball specify GPL 2-or-later.
The files bbdb-ftp.el, bbdb-gnus.el, bbdb-mhe.el, bbdb-print.el,
bbdb-rmail.el, bbdb-sc.el, bbdb-vm.el were released under GPL
1-or-later.
The file bbdb-snarf.el says GPL 1.
The file bbdb-merge.el says very briefly "GPL" without any reference
to a particular version.
Roland
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread
* Re: Adding BBDB 3 core to Emacs
2015-11-23 3:57 ` Roland Winkler
@ 2015-11-23 16:10 ` Richard Stallman
2015-11-23 18:03 ` Roland Winkler
0 siblings, 1 reply; 31+ messages in thread
From: Richard Stallman @ 2015-11-23 16:10 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Roland Winkler; +Cc: jwiegley, stephen, bbdb-info, emacs-devel
[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]
> The file bbdb-snarf.el says GPL 1.
Can you arrange to completely discard that?
> The file bbdb-merge.el says very briefly "GPL" without any reference
> to a particular version.
That means it allows any GPL version, so there is no problem with it.
--
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation (gnu.org, fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (internethalloffame.org)
Skype: No way! See stallman.org/skype.html.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread
* Re: Adding BBDB 3 core to Emacs
2015-11-23 16:10 ` Richard Stallman
@ 2015-11-23 18:03 ` Roland Winkler
2015-11-24 2:37 ` Richard Stallman
0 siblings, 1 reply; 31+ messages in thread
From: Roland Winkler @ 2015-11-23 18:03 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: rms; +Cc: jwiegley, bbdb-info, emacs-devel
On Mon Nov 23 2015 Richard Stallman wrote:
> > The file bbdb-snarf.el says GPL 1.
>
> Can you arrange to completely discard that?
The new BBDB also has a file bbdb-snarf.el which is a complete
rewrite of the old file, where only the general concept of "snarfing
records into BBDB" survived.
This snarfing can be a neat thing, but it is certainly an add-on to
the BBDB core. So to avoid whatever problems, it can remain with
other add-ons at savannah.nongnu.org without affecting BBDB core
functionality.
Actually, the file says:
;;; Copyright (C) 1997 by John Heidemann <johnh@isi.edu>.
;;; $Id: bbdb-snarf.el,v 1.44 2006/05/26 21:20:07 fenk Exp $
;;;
;;; This file is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify
;;; it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published
;;; by the Free Software Foundation version 1.
John Heidemann has an FSF copyright assignment on file and I can
check with him about bbdb-snarf.el. The above email address appears
to be up-to-date. What kind of document would the FSF need from
him for this file?
The subsequent maintainer of the old bbdb-snarf.el, Robert
Widhopf-Fenk, assigned "past and future changes" to the FSF. Is
this sufficient? I could also try to contact him, though I have
found him difficult to reach.
Would this be sufficient for "Copyright by the FSF"?
Thanks,
Roland
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread
* Re: Adding BBDB 3 core to Emacs
2015-11-23 18:03 ` Roland Winkler
@ 2015-11-24 2:37 ` Richard Stallman
0 siblings, 0 replies; 31+ messages in thread
From: Richard Stallman @ 2015-11-24 2:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Roland Winkler; +Cc: jwiegley, bbdb-info, emacs-devel
[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]
> The new BBDB also has a file bbdb-snarf.el which is a complete
> rewrite of the old file, where only the general concept of "snarfing
> records into BBDB" survived.
That eliminates any problem from the old bbdb-snarf.el.
--
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation (gnu.org, fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (internethalloffame.org)
Skype: No way! See stallman.org/skype.html.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread
* Re: Adding BBDB 3 core to Emacs
2015-11-21 16:56 ` Adding BBDB 3 core to Emacs John Wiegley
2015-11-21 17:11 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2015-11-21 19:37 ` Thomas Fitzsimmons
2015-11-21 23:00 ` raman
2015-11-22 5:16 ` John Wiegley
2015-11-21 22:22 ` Roland Winkler
2 siblings, 2 replies; 31+ messages in thread
From: Thomas Fitzsimmons @ 2015-11-21 19:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Roland Winkler; +Cc: George McNinch, bbdb-info, emacs-devel
John Wiegley <jwiegley@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>>> Thomas Fitzsimmons <fitzsim@fitzsim.org> writes:
>
>> I really like this idea. Then we could count on BBDB 3 (core) being in Emacs
>> core. We could fix EUDC to always enable the BBDB backend by default,
>> include an Info node in the manual for BBDB itself and fix the EUDC Info
>> nodes to be BBDB 3-specific.
>
> I would much prefer this to be in "tarball ELPA", so that it is included in
> the distribution, but not a focus for the other developers. Would there be any
> need to include it within core itself?
The main reason is that there are lots of references and dependencies in
core on BBDB already, e.g. Gnus, Org, EUDC. I'd like to satisfy those
dependencies with something stable, available and easily testable. That
implies putting BBDB in core.
If Gnus, Org, EUDC move to "tarball ELPA" eventually, then BBDB could
move too. At that point, hopefully the BBDB APIs used would have had
time to stabilize because of their maintenance in Emacs core.
Or, the other argument is that BBDB could become part of the core
"platform" that provides contact management features to other Emacs
packages. That would probably imply that long-term BBDB should stay in
core.
But in either case, short term (in Emacs feature roadmap timescales :-))
I think it would make sense to put "BBDB core" in Emacs core.
Thomas
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread
* Re: Adding BBDB 3 core to Emacs
2015-11-21 19:37 ` Thomas Fitzsimmons
@ 2015-11-21 23:00 ` raman
2015-11-22 5:16 ` John Wiegley
1 sibling, 0 replies; 31+ messages in thread
From: raman @ 2015-11-21 23:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Thomas Fitzsimmons; +Cc: George McNinch, Roland Winkler, bbdb-info, emacs-devel
1+ -- I think contact management is a core platform feature, and at
present, it remains largely out of reach of the average emacs user.
We've had a lot of discussion lately about Emacs as an iDE; that
discussion focuses on aspects of Emacs relevant to software
development. But Emacs' core strengths derive from it being a
well-rounded platform where one can create all forms of content --
including software, and communication is a key aspect of collaboration
that aids in content creation --
--
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread
* Re: Adding BBDB 3 core to Emacs
2015-11-21 19:37 ` Thomas Fitzsimmons
2015-11-21 23:00 ` raman
@ 2015-11-22 5:16 ` John Wiegley
1 sibling, 0 replies; 31+ messages in thread
From: John Wiegley @ 2015-11-22 5:16 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Thomas Fitzsimmons; +Cc: George McNinch, Roland Winkler, bbdb-info, emacs-devel
>>>>> Thomas Fitzsimmons <fitzsim@fitzsim.org> writes:
> If Gnus, Org, EUDC move to "tarball ELPA" eventually, then BBDB could move
> too.
Yes, I would like to see that happen.
> Or, the other argument is that BBDB could become part of the core "platform"
> that provides contact management features to other Emacs packages. That
> would probably imply that long-term BBDB should stay in core.
That could be an argument for being in core, yes.
> But in either case, short term (in Emacs feature roadmap timescales :-)) I
> think it would make sense to put "BBDB core" in Emacs core.
If other core packages depend on it, then yes, until those others move to
ELPA, core would be the right place.
John
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread
* Re: Adding BBDB 3 core to Emacs
2015-11-21 16:56 ` Adding BBDB 3 core to Emacs John Wiegley
2015-11-21 17:11 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-11-21 19:37 ` Thomas Fitzsimmons
@ 2015-11-21 22:22 ` Roland Winkler
2 siblings, 0 replies; 31+ messages in thread
From: Roland Winkler @ 2015-11-21 22:22 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: John Wiegley; +Cc: George McNinch, Thomas Fitzsimmons, bbdb-info, emacs-devel
On Sat Nov 21 2015 John Wiegley wrote:
> I would much prefer this to be in "tarball ELPA", so that it is
> included in the distribution, but not a focus for the other
> developers. Would there be any need to include it within core
> itself?
The question is to what extent one wants to consider BBDB a core
functionality that other packages rely upon. I myself see the pros
and cons of both sides and therefore do not have strong feelings in
either direction. Yet I certainly hope that in either case such a
decision will not be carved in stone so that if necessary it can be
reviewed once more in later times.
Roland
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread