How to avoid insert anything without switching to read only

How to avoid insert anything without switching to read only

[Lennart Borgman]

In viper-mode nothing should be inserted if you are in vi mode. It works 
for all keys that are assigned commands (like i, o, a etc), but it does 
not work for national characters. Those are not assigned to anything in 
viper. I suggested to the maintainer that this should be fixed by 
advising `self-insert'. Those national characters are bound to 
self-insert according to help (C-h c). Michael was very helpful and 
added this.

However to my surprise it does not work. I have tried to find out why. 
It seems like the adise is not called. I suspect that it has something 
to do with key-translation-map where it looks like those characters are 
translated with `encoded-kbd-self-insert-ccl' if I understand this 
correctly.

How can this be handled?

Re: How to avoid insert anything without switching to read only

[Richard M. Stallman]

When you put advice on primitive functions,
it only works when they are called from Lisp code.
The command loop calls self-insert directly in
a special way, so your advice is not called.

What you should do is rebind those characters to run
another command, one that does your special thing
and calls self-insert.

Re: How to avoid insert anything without switching to read only

[Kim F. Storm]

"Richard M. Stallman" <rms@gnu.org> writes:

> When you put advice on primitive functions,
> it only works when they are called from Lisp code.
> The command loop calls self-insert directly in
> a special way, so your advice is not called.
>
> What you should do is rebind those characters to run
> another command, one that does your special thing
> and calls self-insert.

Or use the command remap feature.

-- 
Kim F. Storm <storm@cua.dk> http://www.cua.dk

Re: How to avoid insert anything without switching to read only

[Lennart Borgman]

Kim F. Storm wrote:

>"Richard M. Stallman" <rms@gnu.org> writes:
>
>  
>
>>When you put advice on primitive functions,
>>it only works when they are called from Lisp code.
>>The command loop calls self-insert directly in
>>a special way, so your advice is not called.
>>
>>What you should do is rebind those characters to run
>>another command, one that does your special thing
>>and calls self-insert.
>>    
>>
>
>Or use the command remap feature.
>  
>
Thanks, but I am not able to understand how to apply any of your 
suggestions in a case like this. The problem is that the keyboard keys 
to change are all those that are outside a set of those defined to 
useful things (say a-z for simplicity). All other keys should be defined 
to do nothing. There are plenty of potential keys (65K). It does not 
seem to be possible to handle them all separately.

Can you please explain a little bit more in detail how you think this 
could be done? Could the actual available keyboard keys in a specific 
situation in some way be listed?

Re: How to avoid insert anything without switching to read only

[David Kastrup]

Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman.073@student.lu.se> writes:

> Kim F. Storm wrote:
>
>>"Richard M. Stallman" <rms@gnu.org> writes:
>>
>>>What you should do is rebind those characters to run
>>>another command, one that does your special thing
>>>and calls self-insert.
>>>    
>>>
>>
>>Or use the command remap feature.
>>
> Thanks, but I am not able to understand how to apply any of your
> suggestions in a case like this. The problem is that the keyboard
> keys to change are all those that are outside a set of those defined
> to useful things (say a-z for simplicity). All other keys should be
> defined to do nothing. There are plenty of potential keys (65K). It
> does not seem to be possible to handle them all separately.
>
> Can you please explain a little bit more in detail how you think
> this could be done? Could the actual available keyboard keys in a
> specific situation in some way be listed?

I don't understand why it is worth doing in the first place.  Why not
just let those characters self-insert?  They don't have any other
meaning in vi.  What use is it to have them beep?

-- 
David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum

Re: How to avoid insert anything without switching to read only

[Lennart Borgman]

David Kastrup wrote:

>I don't understand why it is worth doing in the first place.  Why not
>just let those characters self-insert?  They don't have any other
>meaning in vi.  What use is it to have them beep?
>
It is a bit like to have some control keys self-inserting in Emacs.

Re: How to avoid insert anything without switching to read only

[Kim F. Storm]

Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman.073@student.lu.se> writes:

> Thanks, but I am not able to understand how to apply any of your
> suggestions in a case like this. The problem is that the keyboard keys
> to change are all those that are outside a set of those defined to
> useful things (say a-z for simplicity). All other keys should be
> defined to do nothing. There are plenty of potential keys (65K). It
> does not seem to be possible to handle them all separately.

I'm not sure I understand exactly what's the problem here.

If those characters are NOT bound to any command, how do they get
inserted in a buffer by viper?  If viper calls read-event or read-char
directly to read those characters, it must interpret them too...

Otherwise, viper must rely on the normal read event loop to
find the command bound to those keys.  Let's say they are
all bound to self-insert-unusual-char-command.

Then you can remap that command to a viper equivalent, or
even ignore them directly, directly in the relevant viper
key map, e.g.

(define-key viper-xyz-map [remap self-insert-unusual-char-command]
            'viper-ignore-char)

-- 
Kim F. Storm <storm@cua.dk> http://www.cua.dk

Re: How to avoid insert anything without switching to read only

[Stefan Monnier]

> In viper-mode nothing should be inserted if you are in vi mode. It works for
> all keys that are assigned commands (like i, o, a etc), but it does not work
> for national characters. Those are not assigned to anything in
> viper. I suggested to the maintainer that this should be fixed by advising
> self-insert'. Those national characters are bound to self-insert according
> to help (C-h c). Michael was very helpful and added this.

  (define-key the-viper-map-for-vi-mode [remap self-insert-command] 'undefined)


-- Stefan

Re: How to avoid insert anything without switching to read only

[Lennart Borgman]

Stefan Monnier wrote:

>>In viper-mode nothing should be inserted if you are in vi mode. It works for
>>all keys that are assigned commands (like i, o, a etc), but it does not work
>>for national characters. Those are not assigned to anything in
>>viper. I suggested to the maintainer that this should be fixed by advising
>>self-insert'. Those national characters are bound to self-insert according
>>to help (C-h c). Michael was very helpful and added this.
>>    
>>
>
>  (define-key the-viper-map-for-vi-mode [remap self-insert-command] 'undefined)
>  
>
Thanks! I hope it is solved. The actual code is

    (define-key viper-vi-basic-map [remap self-insert-command] 'undefined)

Wonder where and when it should be called? Can you try to add that Michael?