From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Bastien Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs vista build failures Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 13:06:57 +0200 Message-ID: References: <36366a980807101702r5677d096g8e62ef5b3e278868@mail.gmail.com> <4eb0089f0807121340x5e26f6dbve03ef50b238f3a3a@mail.gmail.com> <87k5fph5rh.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <20080713214648.GB1076@muc.de> <20080714195651.GF3445@muc.de> <487C5FA3.4070603@emf.net> <87zloggji9.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <878wvxxkn6.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <87ej5oz4pb.fsf@saeurebad.de> <87vdyzxype.fsf@saeurebad.de> <871w1njq32.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <87iquzxgtk.fsf@saeurebad.de> <4884CFEF.8040404@gmail.com> <48861A51.1090401@gmail.com> <85iqux92za.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1217070703 18819 80.91.229.12 (26 Jul 2008 11:11:43 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 11:11:43 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jul 26 13:12:33 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1KMhhQ-0008Ce-N6 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 26 Jul 2008 13:12:33 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47090 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KMhgW-0004qS-Tx for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 26 Jul 2008 07:11:36 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KMhea-0003vH-Oa for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 26 Jul 2008 07:09:36 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KMhea-0003up-1i for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 26 Jul 2008 07:09:36 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=51862 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KMheZ-0003ui-Sv for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 26 Jul 2008 07:09:35 -0400 Original-Received: from smtp8-g19.free.fr ([212.27.42.65]:36550) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KMheZ-0007qC-NF for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 26 Jul 2008 07:09:35 -0400 Original-Received: from smtp8-g19.free.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp8-g19.free.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id E775032A812 for ; Sat, 26 Jul 2008 13:09:34 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from bzg.ath.cx (lns-bzn-38-82-253-121-187.adsl.proxad.net [82.253.121.187]) by smtp8-g19.free.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1E7432A77A for ; Sat, 26 Jul 2008 13:09:34 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: <85iqux92za.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> (David Kastrup's message of "Tue, 22 Jul 2008 20:40:41 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.110011 (No Gnus v0.11) Emacs/23.0.60 (gnu/linux) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:101517 Archived-At: David Kastrup writes: > "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" writes: > >> Richard M Stallman wrote: >>> And once again: If this did not work easily on w32 too it might >>> stop people from using it. >>> >>> We must reject any presumption that free programs should work on >>> Windows. >> >> Yes, but that is a different thing. IF making free programs working on >> windows helps promote GNU/Linux (or Herd) is not that good? > > Our first goal is to have a free operating system. This benefits > everybody since anybody is free to use that as long as his hardware > supports it. So if people work on Windows software who would otherwise > work on improving a free system, everybody loses, while only the users > of the non-free operating system gain. > > If people who work only on proprietary systems otherwise make free > software work on those systems, nobody loses. > > In short, we should not lose our focus. Winning people to free software > through Emacs on Windows can't work if the free systems become worse > because of the redirection of effort. If we want to win them over to > free systems, we should make the free systems as good as we can, not the > unfree ones. Very well said. But proprietary systems are not only tools, they are also a media: while running on such platforms, free softwares do advertize the free software movement beyond free systems. While it's that true you cannot invest too much in communication, it's also important to recognize that running free software on a proprietary system is also useful - otherwise you will just strenghten a feeling of guilt in people working for that purpose! Of course, the fact that a computer is both a tool and a media tends to limit the scope of this argument, but maybe it comes close to Lennart's (and others') point. -- Bastien