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From: Bastien <bzg@altern.org>
To: emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Emacs vista build failures
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 13:06:57 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <m3myk4dhv2.fsf@bzg.ath.cx> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <85iqux92za.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> (David Kastrup's message of "Tue,  22 Jul 2008 20:40:41 +0200")

David Kastrup <dak@gnu.org> writes:

> "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" <lennart.borgman@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Richard M Stallman wrote:
>>>     And once again: If this did not work easily on w32 too it might
>>> stop     people from using it.
>>>
>>> We must reject any presumption that free programs should work on
>>> Windows.
>>
>> Yes, but that is a different thing. IF making free programs working on
>> windows helps promote GNU/Linux (or Herd) is not that good?
>
> Our first goal is to have a free operating system.  This benefits
> everybody since anybody is free to use that as long as his hardware
> supports it.  So if people work on Windows software who would otherwise
> work on improving a free system, everybody loses, while only the users
> of the non-free operating system gain.
>
> If people who work only on proprietary systems otherwise make free
> software work on those systems, nobody loses.
>
> In short, we should not lose our focus.  Winning people to free software
> through Emacs on Windows can't work if the free systems become worse
> because of the redirection of effort.  If we want to win them over to
> free systems, we should make the free systems as good as we can, not the
> unfree ones.

Very well said.

But proprietary systems are not only tools, they are also a media: while
running on such platforms, free softwares do advertize the free software
movement beyond free systems.

While it's that true you cannot invest too much in communication, it's
also important to recognize that running free software on a proprietary
system is also useful - otherwise you will just strenghten a feeling of
guilt in people working for that purpose!

Of course, the fact that a computer is both a tool and a media tends to
limit the scope of this argument, but maybe it comes close to Lennart's
(and others') point.

-- 
Bastien




  reply	other threads:[~2008-07-26 11:06 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 279+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <36366a980807091202rd3b6521jc9fa45d321bc9d37@mail.gmail.com>
2008-07-11  0:02 ` Emacs vista build failures Eric Hanchrow
2008-07-11 16:49   ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-11 19:05     ` David Robinow
2008-07-11 23:33       ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-12  7:57         ` David Kastrup
2008-07-12 16:35           ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-12 17:21             ` David Kastrup
2008-07-13  9:35               ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-13  9:46                 ` David Kastrup
2008-07-14 11:05                   ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-11 19:17     ` David Robinow
2008-07-11 20:39       ` Miles Bader
2008-07-11 20:45         ` David Robinow
2008-07-11 20:57           ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-12 16:35             ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-12 19:46               ` Bastien Guerry
2008-07-12 20:17                 ` David Kastrup
2008-07-12 10:49           ` Bastien Guerry
2008-07-12 16:35           ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-12 20:40             ` David Robinow
2008-07-12 22:47               ` Bastien
2008-07-13 19:10               ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-13 20:44                 ` Claus
     [not found]                   ` <87tzet8c3i.fsf@offby1.atm01.sea.blarg.net>
2008-07-14  8:43                     ` Claus
2008-07-15  3:06                       ` Eric Hanchrow
2008-07-14 17:38                   ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-13 20:46               ` Chong Yidong
2008-07-13 21:46                 ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-07-13 21:40                   ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2008-07-13 22:53                     ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-07-13 22:53                       ` David Kastrup
2008-07-13 23:46                         ` Miles Bader
2008-07-14 10:27                       ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2008-07-14 11:58                         ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-07-14 17:39                           ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-14 19:33                             ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-07-15 18:04                           ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2008-07-15 20:29                             ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-07-15 21:02                             ` Chong Yidong
2008-07-15 23:42                               ` Thomas Lord
2008-07-16  1:42                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2008-07-16  1:58                                   ` Miles Bader
2008-07-16  2:43                                     ` Stefan Monnier
2008-07-16  3:01                                       ` Miles Bader
2008-07-16  4:44                                       ` Thomas Lord
2008-07-16  4:43                                   ` Thomas Lord
2008-07-14 10:45                       ` Miles Bader
2008-07-14 12:24                         ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-07-14 12:20                           ` joakim
2008-07-14 12:32                             ` David Kastrup
2008-07-15 18:04                           ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2008-07-13 21:48                   ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-13 23:26                     ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-07-13 23:22                       ` David Kastrup
2008-07-14 20:42                         ` Don Armstrong
2008-07-14 21:05                           ` David Kastrup
2008-07-16 14:36                             ` Manoj Srivastava
2008-07-16 15:20                               ` David Kastrup
2008-07-16 22:04                                 ` Manoj Srivastava
2008-07-16 21:23                               ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-07-16 22:17                                 ` Manoj Srivastava
2008-07-17  8:31                                   ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-07-14 22:30                           ` Debian's idiosyncratic complexification of Emacs [Was: Emacs vista build failures] Alan Mackenzie
2008-07-14 23:54                             ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-07-15  1:05                               ` Debian's idiosyncratic complexification of Emacs Miles Bader
2008-07-15  7:11                                 ` Geoffrey Teale
2008-07-15  8:12                                   ` Miles Bader
2008-07-15  9:48                                     ` David Kastrup
2008-07-15  5:58                               ` Ralf Angeli
2008-07-15  6:50                                 ` David Kastrup
2008-07-15 18:09                                   ` Ralf Angeli
2008-07-15 21:53                                     ` David Kastrup
2008-07-16 14:22                                   ` Manoj Srivastava
2008-07-16 15:22                                     ` David Kastrup
2008-07-16 20:42                                     ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-07-16 22:26                                       ` Manoj Srivastava
2008-07-17  8:46                                         ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-07-18  9:08                                         ` Agustin Martin
2008-07-15  1:38                             ` Debian's idiosyncratic complexification of Emacs [Was: Emacs vista build failures] Don Armstrong
2008-07-15  2:20                               ` Debian's idiosyncratic complexification of Emacs Stefan Monnier
2008-07-15  6:43                                 ` Don Armstrong
2008-07-15  6:55                               ` Debian's idiosyncratic complexification of Emacs [Was: Emacs vista build failures] Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-07-15 10:15                               ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-07-15 10:08                                 ` Debian's idiosyncratic complexification of Emacs David Kastrup
2008-07-16 14:09                                 ` Manoj Srivastava
2008-07-16 16:34                                   ` Stefan Monnier
2008-07-16 19:43                               ` Karl Fogel
2008-07-16 19:59                                 ` Karl Fogel
2008-07-16 21:59                                 ` Manoj Srivastava
2008-07-21 21:26                                   ` Karl Fogel
2008-07-22  4:27                                     ` Miles Bader
2008-07-22 14:21                                       ` Manoj Srivastava
2008-07-23  5:13                                       ` Michael Olson
2008-07-23 19:49                                         ` Stefan Monnier
2008-07-24 17:44                                           ` Manoj Srivastava
2008-07-24 20:20                                             ` Stefan Monnier
2008-07-22 14:22                                     ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-14  1:42                     ` Emacs vista build failures Stefan Monnier
2008-07-14 17:38                     ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-14 17:38                   ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-14 19:56                     ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-07-15  8:28                       ` Thomas Lord
2008-07-15  7:54                         ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-15  8:52                           ` Thomas Lord
2008-07-15  8:57                         ` David Kastrup
2008-07-15 17:14                           ` Thomas Lord
2008-07-17 22:54                         ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-17 23:48                           ` Miles Bader
2008-07-19 17:06                             ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-20  4:08                               ` Miles Bader
2008-07-20 17:21                                 ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-20 20:22                                   ` Johannes Weiner
2008-07-21  3:29                                     ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-21 11:29                                       ` Johannes Weiner
2008-07-21 13:59                                         ` Miles Bader
2008-07-21 17:55                                           ` Johannes Weiner
2008-07-21 18:05                                             ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-21 18:37                                               ` Johannes Weiner
2008-07-21 18:49                                                 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-21 19:30                                                   ` Johannes Weiner
2008-07-21 19:36                                                     ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-21 22:54                                                       ` Evans Winner
2008-07-22  6:47                                                         ` David Kastrup
2008-07-22  8:16                                                         ` Jason Rumney
2008-07-22  8:26                                                           ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-22 13:46                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-07-22 13:58                                                             ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-22 14:34                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-07-22 17:22                                                             ` James Cloos
2008-07-22 17:31                                                               ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-22 20:11                                                             ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2008-07-22 20:19                                                               ` David Kastrup
2008-07-22 22:14                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-07-22 22:23                                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-07-23  6:59                                                                   ` Stephen Leake
2008-07-23  8:20                                                                     ` Jason Rumney
2008-07-23 12:49                                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-07-23  8:45                                                                     ` David Kastrup
2008-07-23  6:35                                                                 ` David Kastrup
2008-07-22 20:06                                                           ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2008-07-22 20:24                                                             ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-22 20:31                                                               ` David Kastrup
2008-07-22 20:45                                                                 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-22 20:59                                                                   ` David Kastrup
2008-07-22 21:03                                                                     ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-22 22:18                                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-07-21 22:47                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-07-21 23:11                                                   ` David Kastrup
2008-07-22 13:13                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-07-22 13:24                                                       ` David Kastrup
2008-07-22 13:51                                                         ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-22 13:57                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-07-22 14:34                                                           ` David Kastrup
2008-07-22 15:12                                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-07-22 15:21                                                               ` David Kastrup
2008-07-22 17:29                                                     ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-21 23:55                                                   ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-07-22  3:41                                                   ` Johannes Weiner
2008-07-22 13:28                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-07-22 14:04                                                       ` David Kastrup
2008-07-22 14:11                                                         ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-22 14:39                                                           ` David Kastrup
2008-07-22 14:47                                                             ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-22 14:52                                                               ` David Kastrup
2008-07-22 15:00                                                                 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-22 15:13                                                                   ` David Kastrup
2008-07-22 15:18                                                                     ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-22 15:20                                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-07-22 15:22                                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-07-22 15:26                                                                       ` David Kastrup
2008-07-22 22:11                                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-07-23  6:32                                                                           ` David Kastrup
2008-07-22 18:52                                                               ` Sven Joachim
2008-07-22 19:12                                                                 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-22 19:33                                                                   ` Sean O'Rourke
2008-07-22 14:42                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-07-22 14:57                                                           ` David Kastrup
2008-07-22 14:37                                                       ` Johannes Weiner
2008-07-23  2:26                                                     ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-23  3:40                                                       ` Johannes Weiner
2008-07-23  3:45                                                         ` Miles Bader
2008-07-24  2:24                                                         ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-24  3:34                                                           ` Johannes Weiner
2008-07-24  2:44                                                         ` Stefan Monnier
2008-07-24  3:29                                                           ` Johannes Weiner
2008-07-22 17:29                                               ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-22 17:35                                                 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-22 18:40                                                   ` David Kastrup
2008-07-26 11:06                                                     ` Bastien [this message]
2008-07-23 16:56                                                   ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-23 17:42                                                     ` Johannes Weiner
2008-07-24  0:06                                                     ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-24  5:25                                                       ` David Kastrup
2008-07-24 22:04                                                       ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-24 22:26                                                         ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-24 23:15                                                           ` Nick Roberts
2008-07-24 23:22                                                             ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-26  1:23                                                               ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-26  1:23                                                           ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-24 23:12                                                         ` Óscar Fuentes
2008-07-26  1:23                                                           ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-26  6:23                                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-07-26  6:45                                                             ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-26  7:07                                                               ` Stefan Monnier
2008-07-25  3:20                                                         ` Miles Bader
2008-07-26  1:24                                                           ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-25 14:18                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-07-26  1:24                                                           ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-26  6:21                                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-07-24  8:07                                                     ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-07-24 10:20                                                       ` David Kastrup
2008-07-24 22:05                                                         ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-25 14:20                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-07-25 14:51                                                             ` David Kastrup
2008-07-25 15:08                                                               ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-25 15:38                                                                 ` David Kastrup
2008-07-25 15:55                                                                   ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-25 16:08                                                                     ` David Kastrup
2008-07-25 16:19                                                                       ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-25 15:40                                                                 ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-07-25 15:56                                                                   ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-26 20:31                                                                 ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-26 20:56                                                                   ` Stefan Monnier
2008-07-25 19:21                                                               ` Stefan Monnier
2008-07-26  6:03                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-07-26  1:24                                                             ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-26  6:19                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-07-26  8:03                                                             ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-07-26  8:50                                                               ` David Kastrup
2008-07-26  9:22                                                                 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-26  9:50                                                                   ` David Kastrup
2008-07-26  9:55                                                                     ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-26 10:15                                                                       ` David Kastrup
2008-07-26 10:32                                                                         ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-26 10:29                                                                 ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-07-26 11:11                                                                   ` David Kastrup
2008-07-26 12:33                                                                     ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-07-26 14:26                                                                       ` David Kastrup
2008-07-26 21:34                                                               ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-26 23:52                                                                 ` Barry Fishman
2008-07-27 17:14                                                                   ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-28  0:05                                                                     ` Barry Fishman
2008-07-28 21:47                                                                       ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-29  1:00                                                                         ` Barry Fishman
2008-07-29  6:21                                                                           ` tomas
2008-07-29 15:21                                                                             ` Barry Fishman
2008-07-30  3:46                                                                               ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-30  3:47                                                                             ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-30  3:47                                                                           ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-25  5:35                                                       ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-22 17:29                                             ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-21 16:48                                         ` Thomas Lord
2008-07-22  2:48                                         ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-21 13:55                                       ` Miles Bader
2008-07-20 20:36                                   ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-21  3:29                                     ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-21  6:14                                       ` David Kastrup
2008-07-21  9:04                                       ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-22  2:48                                         ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-20  6:35                               ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-07-20 22:05                                 ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-20 22:05                                 ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-21  0:43                                   ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-07-21 14:37                                     ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-21 14:51                                       ` David Kastrup
2008-07-22  2:49                                         ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-22 12:46                                           ` David Kastrup
2008-07-23  2:27                                             ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-22  8:02                                       ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-07-22 16:31                                         ` Thomas Lord
2008-07-18  0:05                           ` Thomas Lord
2008-07-19 17:05                             ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-19 21:34                               ` Thomas Lord
2008-07-23 18:17                               ` Karl Berry
2008-07-23 20:18                                 ` Thomas Lord
2008-07-24  6:19                                   ` Gilaras Drakeson
2008-07-25  5:35                                     ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-25  7:08                                       ` Thomas Lord
2008-07-21  5:14 christophe

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