From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: James Cloos Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: arrow keys vs. C-f/b/n/p Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 08:40:02 -0400 Message-ID: References: <87d3w2ncqs.fsf_-_@lola.goethe.zz> <87iq5py7xk.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <83hbl8li1o.fsf@gnu.org> <83sk4sjw45.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1276347411 24174 80.91.229.12 (12 Jun 2010 12:56:51 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 12:56:51 +0000 (UTC) Cc: cyd@stupidchicken.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jun 12 14:56:50 2010 connect(): No such file or directory Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ONQGX-0003eW-FD for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 14:56:50 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34822 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ONQGW-0002lO-HV for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 08:56:48 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=36952 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ONQGQ-0002k3-Sz for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 08:56:44 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ONQGP-0007lM-05 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 08:56:41 -0400 Original-Received: from eagle.jhcloos.com ([207.210.242.212]:43503) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ONQGK-0007kP-Vb; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 08:56:37 -0400 Original-Received: by eagle.jhcloos.com (Postfix, from userid 10) id 744F940143; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 12:56:11 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=jhcloos.com; s=eagle; t=1276347395; bh=VZn85OXHSCi9DRbKdg10aG80MN7QZgN/w4fXnkSa92Y=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:Message-ID: MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=Xrh9H5mbHvrC8RVBB4U9QIb1tu/H4bToZ6+mBhR7QqtwFxAG5E00ZYgJqJQ9pV3va V9Nv9nwPIH6iDh45ArKGxgLi/xpwTPpzBiDbP9iTE4mGxY1t0MgyzeTLUj35Klzn64 S96AZASno5nDVCky/dU/8gAcVJXMxdogOxj9zo+c= Original-Received: from carbon.jhcloos.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by carbon.jhcloos.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 128F21C54B1; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 12:40:03 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: <83sk4sjw45.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sat, 12 Jun 2010 15:03:54 +0300") User-Agent: Gnus/5.110011 (No Gnus v0.11) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAABAAAAAQCAYAAAAf8/9hAAAABHNCSVQICAgIfAhkiAAAAI1J REFUOE+lU9ESgCAIg64P1y+ngUdxhl5H8wFbbM0OmUiEhKkCYaZThXCo6KE5sCbA1DDX3genvO4d eBQgEMaM5qy6uWk4SfBYfdu9jvBN9nSVDOKRtwb+I3epboOsOX5pZbJNsBJFvmQQ05YMfieIBnYX FK2N6dOawd97r/e8RjkTLzmMsiVgrAoEugtviCM3v2WzjgAAAABJRU5ErkJggg== Copyright: Copyright 2009 James Cloos OpenPGP: ED7DAEA6; url=http://jhcloos.com/public_key/0xED7DAEA6.asc OpenPGP-Fingerprint: E9E9 F828 61A4 6EA9 0F2B 63E7 997A 9F17 ED7D AEA6 Original-Lines: 33 X-Hashcash: 1:30:100612:eliz@gnu.org::/W1xjSAsV9ZquzXU:0000maqci X-Hashcash: 1:30:100612:cyd@stupidchicken.com::kjMulv7cWUD1dIxV:000000000000000000000000000000000000000nskuQ X-Hashcash: 1:30:100612:emacs-devel@gnu.org::3HOuTfiDTBx0ujAs:00000000000000000000000000000000000000000JWQGi X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:125811 Archived-At: >>>>> "EZ" == Eli Zaretskii writes: EZ> So what does the RIGHT arrow do in a R2L paragraph, i.e. in a EZ> paragraph that is displayed flushed all the way to the right margin of EZ> the window? Are you saying that the RIGHT arrow actually moves to the EZ> _left_ in such a paragraph? (You say that RIGHT moves in the reading EZ> direction, but the reading direction in a R2L paragraph is right to EZ> left.) Yes, exactly. I didn't try any of the tests in a Hebrew, Arabic or Farsi locale, though, and a retest confirms, at least when running in en_US.UTF-8, that I have to manually set the paragraph direction with the align right paragraph control. I just tried using LC_ALL=fa_FA.UTF-8. With that the arrow keys do exatly the opposite of what they do with LANG=en_US.UTF-8; the LEFT key moves forward in logical order and the RIGHT key backwards. But they still always move in logical order, just swapping the forward vs back meanings as compared to what they do when run in a l2r locale. Weird! Oh, and the default paragraph alignment does become Align Right, as expected. I still prefer only logical moves, with C-f moving forward, C-b moving backward, LEFT always matching C-b and RIGHT always matching C-f. But I have no idea what users who use a r2e LANG/LC_* would want. -JimC -- James Cloos OpenPGP: 1024D/ED7DAEA6