From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Thomas Fitzsimmons Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#41386: 28.0.50; Gnus nnimap OAuth 2.0 support Date: Thu, 21 May 2020 10:30:55 -0400 Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="23164"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: 41386@debbugs.gnu.org To: Richard Stallman Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu May 21 16:32:13 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jbmF2-0005uh-Fa for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 21 May 2020 16:32:12 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:44638 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jbmF1-0001ZL-DJ for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 21 May 2020 10:32:11 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:34340) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jbmEs-0001Z1-Em for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 21 May 2020 10:32:02 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:45516) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jbmEs-00085w-5N for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 21 May 2020 10:32:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jbmEs-00049w-1H for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 21 May 2020 10:32:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Thomas Fitzsimmons Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 21 May 2020 14:32:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 41386 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 41386-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B41386.159007146615920 (code B ref 41386); Thu, 21 May 2020 14:32:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 41386) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 May 2020 14:31:06 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57062 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jbmDy-00048h-0b for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 21 May 2020 10:31:06 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-qv1-f49.google.com ([209.85.219.49]:46074) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jbmDv-00048B-Pj for 41386@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 21 May 2020 10:31:05 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-qv1-f49.google.com with SMTP id z9so3112960qvi.12 for <41386@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 21 May 2020 07:31:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fitzsim-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=cv89ltcsUeO7wigsaoDUVm+5vP/WqSs5i3TbxPvSUY0=; b=haW4ru4w1sasdryNC2iM4CXC+FECUdM71kwqs1JQUeKuYbSHdXbf4XzL1NLXMQunMU pVKeqVJ6TBcwaA/ccvzuEBr4RAmrI86we7Uo6atoTZ2R4APk+fq3f+TEzCoyVAT4WlAc tpFmNnuKzFtfOKVEybsfMUisQwiY2VKePQ9rxdQC8JOuZOat6lwlSm8oPBoQtcFo185t /zb0a7xv8GV7MSNhCmuGQfa43LWltQ0ay56z2WInVT3n9LM3HvtPk7CMIq60T62R9v49 pOjMF43u84z85BK59CHatVpJs55W+6WAt7xhVOIA6xQ7eC3jC7UOsQRAd9MDILc1RDkM AiqQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=cv89ltcsUeO7wigsaoDUVm+5vP/WqSs5i3TbxPvSUY0=; b=OlCvgDF3kT/TT0KON4FyTx2X9CwaEXqP5OKShCmF2tpme6ZTHyCQfGV5Ez2c13BPVQ 8Jto8OicduXNqwFevjm79nTi1s4NAR4rYGSD+H6863axQWKXUH0nrNyFY7dZwGpJgOqB iIfD3uwCZeENJY0Xwq7qqzGSGN5rEh6FD+FxISyVaIj2VFzXUx1b06Syrlm4M5fi67Y2 5VrJni+SD5MxeQeDYIYjLjTiaTY08wBHpvhHoTjxgh63O88Z4p49q7gmXN+ZxRpzb234 fykT6ZcstGQM1wpLIDqJhAuBpme7zl0q4sssoViHqx+lg/ez17JjneetmnGtJHJBcEOI 4mxw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530alrjJ9gwK0uQULcyFqXBzWASPRfnOK0EVcwt9iIsDw9P5/08E 3W3KDhr5S/M1GUtprNP8mLoT2fF6aHkUMihK X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzDSiACcfO8wEyoHmQrGoL6Z/EUR1OZ9eUfQVlmvUAUPNB2zQj+Di0kHfHwdyaRMifl6LFD9A== X-Received: by 2002:ad4:4890:: with SMTP id bv16mr10627856qvb.164.1590071457739; Thu, 21 May 2020 07:30:57 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from localhost.localdomain (69-165-165-189.dsl.teksavvy.com. [69.165.165.189]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id f127sm4915117qkj.61.2020.05.21.07.30.56 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 21 May 2020 07:30:56 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Wed, 20 May 2020 23:47:21 -0400") X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:180704 Archived-At: Richard Stallman writes: > [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] > [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] > [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > > Two factor authentication can be implemented by a service without > > requiring OAuth 2.0, and vice versa. > > Ok. But my concern is not about OAuth in particular. The crucial > question is, will Gmail in the future permit access from the Free World > in any manner whatsoever? > > In other words, if we look at all the ways of logging in that Gmail > permits in the future, will _any_ of them be usable in the Free World? > > Can you help me find the answer? If it is no, we had better put all our > strength into changing that answer. OK, I'll try to help, but I don't know what Google or Gmail will do in the future, in general, obviously. I wanted this bug report to be specifically about Gnus, IMAP and OAuth 2.0 (which the responding experts correctly inferred was more precisely about Gnus, IMAP and Gmail's proposed OAuth 2.0 policy change). Your question reminded me that Gmail provides "basic HTML view" which does not require any Javascript whatsoever for sign-in or for the main interface, and thus is fully useable with Emacs Web Wowser (eww). For me that isn't a viable alternative to Gnus, so it's tangential to this bug report, but that access method is feasible using entirely Free Software. Hopefully that answers your question. Will "basic HTML view" still be available after Gmail starts mandating OAuth 2.0 for IMAP access (assuming they do, sometime in the future)? I suspect it will, but I don't know. Thomas