From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Madhu Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [External] : Re: Telemetry, opt-in, opt-out [was: Proposal: new default bindings for winner and windmove] Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2024 19:58:07 +0530 Message-ID: References: <7133BE83-064B-43A4-A193-61376605222C@dancol.org> <055E6E92-6971-409E-A106-7E0C64FEF856@dancol.org> <87bk3r22x5.fsf@yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="31856"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Cancel-Lock: sha1:R4qHYtRkuxvU6HmuWOpSWvLJEDk= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Jun 25 17:13:10 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1sM7r4-00083Y-8J for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 25 Jun 2024 17:13:10 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sM7qi-0004qs-Db; Tue, 25 Jun 2024 11:12:51 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sM79Y-0005mp-Lj for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 25 Jun 2024 10:28:12 -0400 Original-Received: from ciao.gmane.io ([116.202.254.214]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sM79W-0006cs-Hz for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 25 Jun 2024 10:28:12 -0400 Original-Received: from list by ciao.gmane.io with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1sM79R-0009sM-KA for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 25 Jun 2024 16:28:05 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Received-SPF: pass client-ip=116.202.254.214; envelope-from=ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; helo=ciao.gmane.io X-Spam_score_int: -16 X-Spam_score: -1.7 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.7 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 25 Jun 2024 11:12:30 -0400 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:320637 Archived-At: * Drew Adams : Wrote on Sun, 23 Jun 2024 21:12:34 +0000: >> >> Opt-out collection of anonymous metrics has been an industry standard >> >> for many years now. >> > Whatever "industry standard" means. Industry standard is >> > surveillance capitalism these days. Not something to strive >> > for, not in free software's context, I think. >> Yup, I'd be happy to see some kind of statistics-gathering system >> included in Emacs if it can help us decide how to evolve the projects >> and its default settings, but it definitely needs to be opt-in: Emacs >> should never contact a host without the user "explicitly" requesting it >> (there's some wiggle room about what "explicitly" can mean, admittedly, >> but in terms of sending telemetry it's pretty clear to me that it needs >> to be opt-in). > > It's also possible to just ask users - poll them, > as RMS often suggests. > > Neither polls nor opt-in telemetry are without > their limitations/problems, of course. But the > point is that, if and when Emacs dev wants to > consider whether to add some default key bindings, > it can help to get input from the wider user base. But with telemetry there is data which can be passed-off as non-biased and international investors can control the development of emacs based on the numbers (backed by solid evidence)