From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#9082: Add hints to documentation of car and cdr for (e)lisp newcomers Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2011 22:37:53 +0200 Message-ID: References: <8762n4ewfx.fsf@topper.koldfront.dk> <87k4bkd61a.fsf@topper.koldfront.dk> <87wrfkboa1.fsf@topper.koldfront.dk> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1310676526 29625 80.91.229.12 (14 Jul 2011 20:48:46 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2011 20:48:46 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 9082@debbugs.gnu.org To: asjo@koldfront.dk (Adam =?UTF-8?Q?Sj=C3=B8gren?=) Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Jul 14 22:48:42 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QhSpt-0000DP-Rz for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; 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Thu, 14 Jul 2011 20:39:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 9082) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Jul 2011 20:38:14 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QhSfl-0000E0-7N for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 14 Jul 2011 16:38:13 -0400 Original-Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QhSfi-0000Dn-Jr for 9082@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 14 Jul 2011 16:38:11 -0400 Original-Received: from cm-84.215.51.58.getinternet.no ([84.215.51.58] helo=quimbies.gnus.org) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1QhSfV-0000Ua-Ds; Thu, 14 Jul 2011 22:37:57 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87wrfkboa1.fsf@topper.koldfront.dk> ("Adam \=\?iso-8859-1\?Q\?Sj\?\= \=\?iso-8859-1\?Q\?\=F8gren\=22's\?\= message of "Thu, 14 Jul 2011 22:28:06 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.110018 (No Gnus v0.18) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAAGFBMVEX89vP27ekRDwikmY4E AwE/NifXysHm29X0SzAeAAACKUlEQVQ4jWWSS6+bMBCFQZVyt1iVwt4J2TeOnb1r9hXgdJtcxLAN RbX/fmf8CGk7iwjmy5nj46Eoq7L4rxhj+bEqasaqjyU2yg3AAxzMOwXPv0HJipJGllnwUvzjsIGd uGdxRf06vX05mvb5LsjglzHmZ7aLgFX0duHGtG8C5ovoIq9no+9vAogHLOVzN5gfue+9E6jAWV85 sMmcku84zmMfn6cWinVo43QnBMhbAPVkUXbRCz47QCDkGIBT8j5/dOZBrmKU1lpBwAt//lbtZE9i IUabgbvuz0J4Qf8BmtNLbouF+XHeDzc/NWL2tQ/lYCy8X8U8HrU9YnblcwGCySonTSjdz6mPYPFS wWRSHTzLisWvkuakukUfV3jXr7iMF2nnYA4FrF1n9HV4SVSwgGJe0bjZTMwJJTMBNxl9WzYQZqG5 g088yxRHabTS12ju4GK07W3oc067T6eCwTQCutBvuOHmFI6FHoPuJ4Ffg6Zb5RYzxoCO2170Yu7t owZcBUaMYG2tUHixDD/3/So7DTGg/60boayitdbejQQcBfSfmltLuwiJEaiY3GMMw3mDm8OFWnvU ABugo+KJQgwEEO7q8gJIaI3gIhhoUmg3QdMmBUTQ2Q6N8Of4PYERxwRJx22D3iaDcN/4X7qN7ia5 OWyKBLCudgNAXw6PfavQPI+ipeokIIsNnAnI0O5ijgQwIO8RNBTQvANcqEiTSJGvBAatD1MCHQEV wB+zXRnbvsWS1QAAAABJRU5ErkJggg== X-Now-Playing: Joni Mitchell's _Hejira_: "Hejira" X-Hashcash: 1:23:110714:rgm@gnu.org::OWCeLAp5DcswANAO:0000001Lil X-Hashcash: 1:23:110714:9082@debbugs.gnu.org::49OBEUz1BWy4eLQ4:00000000000000000000000000000000000000000Azko X-Hashcash: 1:23:110714:asjo@koldfront.dk::wfaaw8dEgmluesC1:00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000V/Ug X-MailScanner-ID: 1QhSfV-0000Ua-Ds MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1311280677.51916@BttnPV9HdTva5Z20Br2AtA X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list Resent-Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2011 16:39:02 -0400 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:49087 Archived-At: asjo@koldfront.dk (Adam Sj=F8gren) writes: > Sure, you can quickly try them, or you can figure out why the > (elisp)Cons cells link doesn't work in your emacs-snapshot instance and Funnily enough, I think I fixed that bug earlier today. :-) > read up on it there, or you can find the answer on wikipedia - but just > a little hint in the documentation of the functions we are talking about > would have quenched the frustration instantly. > > The target demographic for these texts surely would be someone for whom > "car returns the car, cdr returns the cdr" isn't helping? It's really hard to explain these two functions, because they are so simple and have little intrinsic meaning. Which is why they were called why they're called, and not `first' and `rest' (which also has proponents). If a user sees (setq a '(foo . bar)) (zot (cdr a)) I don't see how looking up `cdr' and seeing "(rest)" really unconfuses all that much. Pointing to the manual is the only thing that will help here, in my opinion. --=20 (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/