From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.sxemacs.devel,gmane.emacs.gnus.general,gmane.emacs.xemacs.beta,gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Moving Gnus development to Emacs? Date: Sat, 02 Jan 2016 18:39:46 +0100 Message-ID: References: <87lh8b6jnl.fsf@isaac.fritz.box> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1451756431 9401 80.91.229.3 (2 Jan 2016 17:40:31 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2016 17:40:31 +0000 (UTC) Cc: yamaoka@jpl.org, xemacs-beta@xemacs.org, sxemacs-devel@sxemacs.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: ding@gnus.org Original-X-From: sxemacs-devel-bounces@lists.sxemacs.org Sat Jan 02 18:40:18 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: gesd-sxemacs-devel-2@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from zapata.dreamhost.com ([66.33.216.56]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1aFQA4-0002bt-4S for gesd-sxemacs-devel-2@m.gmane.org; Sat, 02 Jan 2016 18:40:16 +0100 Original-Received: from zapata.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zapata.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F1E38DB0950; Sat, 2 Jan 2016 09:40:13 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from homiemail-mx8.g.dreamhost.com (mx2.sub3.homie.mail.dreamhost.com [69.163.253.9]) by zapata.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3F668DB0950 for ; Sat, 2 Jan 2016 09:40:11 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from diehard.dreamhost.com (caiajhbdcbfh.dreamhost.com [208.97.132.157]) by homiemail-mx8.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F63CA0091 for ; Sat, 2 Jan 2016 09:40:11 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by diehard.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 586FF17BE0A3 for ; Sat, 2 Jan 2016 09:40:11 -0800 (PST) X-DH-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at diehard.dreamhost.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0 tagged_above=-999 required=999 tests=[none] autolearn=disabled Original-Received: from connor.dreamhost.com ([208.97.132.17]) by localhost (diehard.dreamhost.com [208.97.132.157]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mwH6xejKz+hR for ; Sat, 2 Jan 2016 09:40:11 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from hermes.netfonds.no (hermes.netfonds.no [80.91.224.195]) by connor.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26EC02C98228 for ; Sat, 2 Jan 2016 09:40:18 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from cm-84.215.1.64.getinternet.no ([84.215.1.64] helo=stories) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1aFQ9a-0005Xx-P2; Sat, 02 Jan 2016 18:39:46 +0100 Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAAGFBMVEXbzMMFCAsDBgkiICAK DQ94Y1kDBAf08vMjH26GAAACQUlEQVQ4jWWSMW/jMAyFuRieJfu6Swk8N5H0A2SpnVOoQucYhWZv /vv3SKe5pMfEcMKPj3y0TJ9jzjlqq+0exiprkaMPJXlrF3wQrQEiR2c1Zt0QU1uWyU4CRpXpfboq 3VJDqVwMLIpJ2cXYQ1imqV1R/tLa0pphYFBkyikZF9Ksjui3WAHQTwfnXA3VFVeLtzcAfUtH597t CXaUM9oYnhEZnBelj35ioLCRYUV84WlWm+Sc5zw83lw1mMduBwcUteFtFfZQGr3QRB+GARbmbPTP HrLV94yHpFXMEWCMUOiJ/TaMxWg0wpic74ql2SPMjDPbGjNfZOBp0Vd9SC7/ce6sFKaLAvlxztpj 8pC8Rj/LB0LwmtGhzYs+8HnwKtYeMy32yvPtEGd9NlkJ0lC0PSyWSKXWGXk4GDxNN+A4omO7INnd FadhlKTEmC7UrryF1SN88sXrqfxKFOWdwTnkk/JDipnjrV8Jeo3Ho5wLPKUIuGwreWT5G09jjmqU fOoB4EPzvOzzPV63jSh8wkRk58lntwu+IKDQRdGnUIMLgXVvLKBAH1LmcbA4XP/TCaDbG8vqAqQT 1QsVf88zcL2ArlKH/z6FgrexluIu267guBSurqLB0+hp3YGrBCLQha+1fDEooSIjBUJCv3YyHX3h lNggzyP8uoHArWm7x0prz2XltStPAJq13/eoJfQPggcQAj0IaB+IeV2olf4pZHG2AccXrrq1k/u6 mxS8PQXdulH/nBeFxC+w3cGvTtuPsf81fwFbEQG8ek4WIQAAAABJRU5ErkJggg== In-Reply-To: <87lh8b6jnl.fsf@isaac.fritz.box> (David Engster's message of "Thu, 31 Dec 2015 10:40:14 +0100") User-Agent: Gnus/5.130014 (Ma Gnus v0.14) Emacs/25.1.50 (gnu/linux) X-MailScanner-ID: 1aFQ9a-0005Xx-P2 MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1452361187.10269@TWwUacEO6ZkNvj0CZSLTnw X-BeenThere: sxemacs-devel@lists.sxemacs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: SXEmacs developers' list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: sxemacs-devel-bounces@lists.sxemacs.org Original-Sender: "SXEmacs-Devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.sxemacs.devel:3604 gmane.emacs.gnus.general:86509 gmane.emacs.xemacs.beta:39516 gmane.emacs.devel:197379 Archived-At: After the discussion here, I think I've decided to move Gnus development to Emacs and Emacsify the code for greater readability. If {S,}XEmacs wants to keep tracking Gnus development, this unfortunately means that the onus is on the {S,}XEmacs maintainers to add an ever-growing number of Emacs compat functions, and expand function call lists to keep up with Emacs function call lists. (As well as adding seq/map/cllib/etc.) The major stumbling block is, of course, lexical binding, but we'll see how much of that creeps into Gnus after a while. Gnus is quite async in some respects, and having proper closures makes that a lot more readable, but on the other hand, Gnus (ab)uses dynamic scope extensively, so... I wrote up the decision here, with added images: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/2016/01/01/its-about-ethics-in-gnus-development/ -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no