From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: joakim@verona.se Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: On language-dependent defaults for character-folding Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2016 17:46:30 +0100 Message-ID: References: <87mvr9wxqz.fsf@wanadoo.es> <87io1xwq1e.fsf@wanadoo.es> <83d1s4bnag.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1455382031 15075 80.91.229.3 (13 Feb 2016 16:47:11 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2016 16:47:11 +0000 (UTC) Cc: ofv@wanadoo.es, bruce.connor.am@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Feb 13 17:47:00 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1aUdLX-0007qF-I9 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 13 Feb 2016 17:46:59 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:43256 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aUdLW-0001N2-Ve for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 13 Feb 2016 11:46:58 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:40972) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aUdLT-0001Mm-9Z for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 13 Feb 2016 11:46:56 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aUdLS-0004iU-30 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 13 Feb 2016 11:46:55 -0500 Original-Received: from mx1.bahnhof.se ([213.80.101.11]:59242) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aUdLN-0004iE-42; Sat, 13 Feb 2016 11:46:49 -0500 Original-Received: from localhost (mf.bahnhof.se [213.80.101.20]) by mx1-reinject (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCACB40C5E; Sat, 13 Feb 2016 17:46:47 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new using ClamAV at bahnhof.se (MF4) Original-Received: from mf4.bahnhof.se ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mf4.bahnhof.se [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wFsSszRI3dWb; Sat, 13 Feb 2016 17:46:41 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from mta.verona.se (h-235-62.a149.priv.bahnhof.se [85.24.235.62]) by mf4.bahnhof.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 695913D789E; Sat, 13 Feb 2016 17:46:41 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by mta.verona.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 241F84EA70D; Sat, 13 Feb 2016 16:46:41 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at verona.se Original-Received: from mta.verona.se ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (exodia.verona.se [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QyTQyxqv2zeG; Sat, 13 Feb 2016 17:46:30 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from exodia.verona.se (www.verona.se [192.168.200.15]) by mta.verona.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6AB14E21B7; Sat, 13 Feb 2016 17:46:30 +0100 (CET) In-Reply-To: <83d1s4bnag.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Wed, 10 Feb 2016 17:25:11 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.90 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 213.80.101.11 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:199882 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2016 02:18:03 +0000 >> From: Artur Malabarba >> Cc: emacs-devel >>=20 >> > > I could be wrong, but I think you just defined all users. In the >> > > Unicode standard used by Emacs, there are 5721 characters with a >> > > =E2=80=9Cdecomposition=E2=80=9D property. Is there a user who is wel= l-equiped to type >> > > all of those characters? >> >=20 >> > (And how many of those 5721 characters can be matched from a latin >> > letter?) >>=20 >> OK, I see what you meant. > > You do? I don't, because the answer to =C3=93scar's question is: 376 if = we > count only canonical decompositions (which we must support, or users > will hate us), and a whopping 1449 if we count compatibility > decompositions as well. That's quite a few, I'd say, although AFAIR > we don't find all of the compatibility decompositions under character > folding, only some. > > Btw, from my POV, the ease of searching for characters not on my > keyboard is not the main point of this feature. The main feature is > to search for similar characters. (Of course, I don't mind if someone > likes this for other reasons.) > >> Although currently Emacs does fold all decompositions by default, this i= s just temporary. We've said we would turn that off before release (and in = fact I'll do that tomorrow (and ammend my post too)). > > We didn't say we will turn it off, we said we will _decide_ whether to > turn it off. So please don't turn it off just yet, we are still > collecting feedback. If anything, for now I counted more people who > said they liked it than those who didn't (5 vs 9, by my count). I'm > not saying we should already decide to leave it on, but turning it off > is certainly premature. Less than two weeks have passed since the > pretest began, there's no rush. I like character folding, I write mainly in Swedish and English. The mix of Swedish and English usually winds up being horrible, so character folding helps finding things in source code where you are not sur= e if Swedish characters have been guillotined or not (=C3=85=C3=84=C3=96 becomes= AAO) That said I think the question if something should be default or not generates way too much warm air. I think ELPA should carry a number of installable themes that present a coherent set of defaults. So you could just install 'emacs-xtra-everything' from ELPA and get many interesting features suitable for a fast machine. Or you could go with 'emacs-orthodoxy' which disables certain new settings. (like for instance 'C-x M-o runs the command dired-omit-mode'. I didn't like the newfangled C-x prefix. Otherwise I'm mostly positive to newfangledness) > Thanks. > --=20 Joakim Verona