marking using shifted arrow keys (CUA mode)

marking using shifted arrow keys (CUA mode)

[Reiner Steib]

Hi,

for a colleague, I was looking for an option to mark text using
shifted arrow keys (<S-right>, <C-S-right>) in Emacs 22.1.
I tried `i arrow', `i shift' in the manual without success.  Finally I
found it in (info "(emacs)CUA Bindings") because I presumed that it
might be a feature of CUA mode.  I don't think that a user expects to
find it in a node under "Killing and Moving Text".  Maybe a hint and a
cross reference in (info "(emacs)Marking Objects") would be useful.
And I think we should add an index entry (maybe like this one):

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
--- killing.texi	15 Apr 2007 10:54:28 +0200	1.60
+++ killing.texi	16 Jul 2007 20:26:36 +0200	
@@ -650,6 +650,7 @@
 However, if you don't want to override these bindings in Emacs at all,
 set @code{cua-enable-cua-keys} to @code{nil}.
 
+@cindex marking, using shifted arrow keys
   In CUA mode, using @kbd{Shift} together with the movement keys
 activates and highlights the region over which they move.  The
 standard (unshifted) movement keys deactivate the mark, and typed text
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

Additionally, it's a little bit strange that the user has to enable
`cua-mode' and disable (set `cua-enable-cua-keys' to `nil') the most
prominent CUA feature to get "marking using shifted arrow keys".  Did
I miss something?  Is there another possibility?

In the documentation of CUA, we use "movement keys".  In the tutorial
and many other manual nodes ((info "(emacs)Menu Bar"), (info
"(emacs)User Input"), (info "(emacs)Keys"), (info "(emacs)Moving
Point")), we use the term "arrow keys".  I'd suggest to replace
"movement keys" with "arrow keys" in the CUA docs.

Unless there's objection, I will add these suggestions:

- add index entry
- add hint and a cross reference in (info "(emacs)Marking Objects")
- "movement keys" -> "arrow keys"

(Should such doc fixes go into Emacs 22 or into the trunk?  I'd say
Emacs 22.)

Bye, Reiner.
-- 
       ,,,
      (o o)
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Re: marking using shifted arrow keys (CUA mode)

[Dan Nicolaescu]

Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> writes:

  > Hi,
  > 
  > for a colleague, I was looking for an option to mark text using
  > shifted arrow keys (<S-right>, <C-S-right>) in Emacs 22.1.
  > I tried `i arrow', `i shift' in the manual without success.  Finally I
  > found it in (info "(emacs)CUA Bindings") because I presumed that it
  > might be a feature of CUA mode.  I don't think that a user expects to
  > find it in a node under "Killing and Moving Text".  Maybe a hint and a
  > cross reference in (info "(emacs)Marking Objects") would be useful.
  > And I think we should add an index entry (maybe like this one):
  > 
  > --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
  > --- killing.texi	15 Apr 2007 10:54:28 +0200	1.60
  > +++ killing.texi	16 Jul 2007 20:26:36 +0200	
  > @@ -650,6 +650,7 @@
  >  However, if you don't want to override these bindings in Emacs at all,
  >  set @code{cua-enable-cua-keys} to @code{nil}.
  >  
  > +@cindex marking, using shifted arrow keys
  >    In CUA mode, using @kbd{Shift} together with the movement keys
  >  activates and highlights the region over which they move.  The
  >  standard (unshifted) movement keys deactivate the mark, and typed text
  > --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---
  > 
  > Additionally, it's a little bit strange that the user has to enable
  > `cua-mode' and disable (set `cua-enable-cua-keys' to `nil') the most
  > prominent CUA feature to get "marking using shifted arrow keys".  Did
  > I miss something?  Is there another possibility?


See cua-selection-mode

Re: marking using shifted arrow keys (CUA mode)

[Reiner Steib]

On Mon, Jul 16 2007, Dan Nicolaescu wrote:

> Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> writes:
>   > Additionally, it's a little bit strange that the user has to enable
>   > `cua-mode' and disable (set `cua-enable-cua-keys' to `nil') the most
>   > prominent CUA feature to get "marking using shifted arrow keys".  Did
>   > I miss something?  Is there another possibility?
>
> See cua-selection-mode

Thanks.  Shouldn't `cua-selection-mode' be mentioned in the manual?

Bye, Reiner.
-- 
       ,,,
      (o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo---  |  PGP key available  |  http://rsteib.home.pages.de/

Re: marking using shifted arrow keys (CUA mode)

[Dan Nicolaescu]

Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> writes:

  > On Mon, Jul 16 2007, Dan Nicolaescu wrote:
  > 
  > > Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> writes:
  > >   > Additionally, it's a little bit strange that the user has to enable
  > >   > `cua-mode' and disable (set `cua-enable-cua-keys' to `nil') the most
  > >   > prominent CUA feature to get "marking using shifted arrow keys".  Did
  > >   > I miss something?  Is there another possibility?
  > >
  > > See cua-selection-mode
  > 
  > Thanks.  Shouldn't `cua-selection-mode' be mentioned in the manual?

Kim is probably the best person to ask about this... 

Re: marking using shifted arrow keys (CUA mode)

[Frank Schmitt]

Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> writes:

> for a colleague, I was looking for an option to mark text using
> shifted arrow keys (<S-right>, <C-S-right>) in Emacs 22.1.
> I tried `i arrow', `i shift' in the manual without success.  Finally I
> found it in (info "(emacs)CUA Bindings") because I presumed that it
> might be a feature of CUA mode.  I don't think that a user expects to
> find it in a node under "Killing and Moving Text".  Maybe a hint and a
> cross reference in (info "(emacs)Marking Objects") would be useful.
> And I think we should add an index entry (maybe like this one):

No need for cua-mode, there's pc-selection-mode, which does just this.

-- 
Did you ever realize how much text fits in eighty columns? If you now consider
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space to spread a tremendous amount of information with your messages. So seize
this opportunity and don't waste your signature with bullshit nobody will read.

Re: marking using shifted arrow keys (CUA mode)

[Kim F. Storm]

Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> writes:

> Unless there's objection, I will add these suggestions:
>
> - add index entry

Go ahead.

> - add hint and a cross reference in (info "(emacs)Marking Objects")

Ok with me.

And it is ok to mention cua-selection-mode too.
(It is an oversight on my part that it is missing).

> - "movement keys" -> "arrow keys"

Please don't.

With cua-(selection-)mode all keys which cause cursor movement
extends the region when pressed with SHIFT.

So "movement keys" include PgUp, PgDown, Home, End, C-f, C-b,
M-f, M->, etc. etc. etc


> (Should such doc fixes go into Emacs 22 or into the trunk?  I'd say
> Emacs 22.)

Emacs 22 (and merged to trunk).

-- 
Kim F. Storm <storm@cua.dk> http://www.cua.dk

Re: marking using shifted arrow keys (CUA mode)

[Reiner Steib]

On Tue, Jul 17 2007, Frank Schmitt wrote:

> Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> writes:
>
>> for a colleague, I was looking for an option to mark text using
>> shifted arrow keys (<S-right>, <C-S-right>) in Emacs 22.1.
[...]
> No need for cua-mode, there's pc-selection-mode, which does just this.

According to the doc string, it does much more.

As `pc-selection-mode' is not mentioned in the manual at all and no
significant changes have been made to `pc-select.el' sind 2002, I
guess that CUA is preferred nowadays.

Bye, Reiner.
-- 
       ,,,
      (o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo---  |  PGP key available  |  http://rsteib.home.pages.de/

Re: marking using shifted arrow keys (CUA mode)

[Reiner Steib]

On Tue, Jul 17 2007, Kim F. Storm wrote:

> Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> writes:
>> - add index entry
>
> Go ahead.
>
>> - add hint and a cross reference in (info "(emacs)Marking Objects")
>
> Ok with me.
>
> And it is ok to mention cua-selection-mode too.
> (It is an oversight on my part that it is missing).

I will suggest a patch.

>> - "movement keys" -> "arrow keys"
>
> Please don't.
>
> With cua-(selection-)mode all keys which cause cursor movement
> extends the region when pressed with SHIFT.
>
> So "movement keys" include PgUp, PgDown, Home, End, C-f, C-b,
> M-f, M->, etc. etc. etc

I wasn't aware of this.  Maybe the term "movement key" should be
explained?  How about this?

,----
|   In CUA mode, using @kbd{Shift} together with the movement keys (the
| arrow keys, @kbd{C-f}, etc.) activates and highlights the region over
| which they move.  [...]
`----

>> (Should such doc fixes go into Emacs 22 or into the trunk?  I'd say
>> Emacs 22.)
>
> Emacs 22 (and merged to trunk).

I didn't mention syncing to the trunk, but it's clear that this will
be done as well.

Bye, Reiner.
-- 
       ,,,
      (o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo---  |  PGP key available  |  http://rsteib.home.pages.de/

Re: marking using shifted arrow keys (CUA mode)

[Reiner Steib]

On Tue, Jul 17 2007, Kim F. Storm wrote:

> And it is ok to mention cua-selection-mode too.

BTW, shouldn't `cua-selection-mode' be customizable (using
`define-minor-mode' or a defcustom + :set)?

Bye, Reiner.
-- 
       ,,,
      (o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo---  |  PGP key available  |  http://rsteib.home.pages.de/

Re: marking using shifted arrow keys (CUA mode)

[Johan Bockgård]

Frank Schmitt <ich@frank-schmitt.net> writes:

> there's pc-selection-mode, which does just this.

As does lisp/s-region.el.

-- 
Johan Bockgård

Re: marking using shifted arrow keys (CUA mode)

[Frank Schmitt]

Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> writes:

> On Tue, Jul 17 2007, Frank Schmitt wrote:
>
>> Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> writes:
>>
>>> for a colleague, I was looking for an option to mark text using
>>> shifted arrow keys (<S-right>, <C-S-right>) in Emacs 22.1.
> [...]
>> No need for cua-mode, there's pc-selection-mode, which does just this.
>
> According to the doc string, it does much more.

Yes, it simulations the behavior of KDE, Gnome and Windows apps which is
probably what users who are accustomed to those systems want.

> As `pc-selection-mode' is not mentioned in the manual at all and no
> significant changes have been made to `pc-select.el' sind 2002, I
> guess that CUA is preferred nowadays.

Perhaps there were no changes since it just works?

-- 
Did you ever realize how much text fits in eighty columns? If you now consider
that a signature usually consists of up to four lines, this gives you enough
space to spread a tremendous amount of information with your messages. So seize
this opportunity and don't waste your signature with bullshit nobody will read.

Re: marking using shifted arrow keys (CUA mode)

[Reiner Steib]

On Wed, Jul 18 2007, Frank Schmitt wrote:

> Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> writes:
>> On Tue, Jul 17 2007, Frank Schmitt wrote:
>>> No need for cua-mode, there's pc-selection-mode, which does just this.
>>
>> According to the doc string, it does much more.
>
> Yes, it simulations the behavior of KDE, Gnome and Windows apps which is
> probably what users who are accustomed to those systems want.

<F6> for `other-window'?

>> As `pc-selection-mode' is not mentioned in the manual at all and no
>> significant changes have been made to `pc-select.el' sind 2002, I
>> guess that CUA is preferred nowadays.
>
> Perhaps there were no changes since it just works?

Possible. :-)

Bye, Reiner.
-- 
       ,,,
      (o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo---  |  PGP key available  |  http://rsteib.home.pages.de/

Re: marking using shifted arrow keys (CUA mode)

[Kim F. Storm]

Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> writes:

> On Tue, Jul 17 2007, Kim F. Storm wrote:
>
>> And it is ok to mention cua-selection-mode too.
>
> BTW, shouldn't `cua-selection-mode' be customizable (using
> `define-minor-mode' or a defcustom + :set)?

Fine with me.  Would you like to work on it?

-- 
Kim F. Storm <storm@cua.dk> http://www.cua.dk

Re: marking using shifted arrow keys (CUA mode)

[Reiner Steib]

On Thu, Jul 19 2007, Kim F. Storm wrote:

> Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> writes:
>> On Tue, Jul 17 2007, Kim F. Storm wrote:
>>> And it is ok to mention cua-selection-mode too.
>>
>> BTW, shouldn't `cua-selection-mode' be customizable (using
>> `define-minor-mode' or a defcustom + :set)?
>
> Fine with me.  Would you like to work on it?

It would make sense to do this before adding `cua-selection-mode' (the
command) to the manual.

I'm not sure when I find some time to do it.  If you'd like to, please
go ahead.  What is preferable: `define-minor-mode' or defcustom + :set?

Bye, Reiner.
-- 
       ,,,
      (o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo---  |  PGP key available  |  http://rsteib.home.pages.de/

Re: marking using shifted arrow keys (CUA mode)

[Reiner Steib]

On Mon, Jul 16 2007, Reiner Steib wrote:

> - add index entry
> - add hint and a cross reference in (info "(emacs)Marking Objects")
> - "movement keys" -> "arrow keys"
... plus:

- Define cua-selection-mode using define-minor-mode.
- Document cua-selection-mode in the manual

Here's the patch.  I'm not sure how much of the documentation should
be in "Marking Objects" and how much in "CUA Bindings".

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
Index: lisp/ChangeLog
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvsroot/emacs/emacs/lisp/ChangeLog,v
retrieving revision 1.11049.2.143
diff -u -r1.11049.2.143 ChangeLog
--- lisp/ChangeLog	21 Jul 2007 09:06:17 -0000	1.11049.2.143
+++ lisp/ChangeLog	21 Jul 2007 14:11:19 -0000
@@ -1,3 +1,8 @@
+2007-07-21  Reiner Steib  <Reiner.Steib@gmx.de>
+
+	* emulation/cua-base.el (cua-selection-mode): Define using
+	cua-selection-mode to allow customization.
+
 2007-07-21  Thien-Thi Nguyen  <ttn@gnuvola.org>
 
 	* emacs-lisp/lisp-mode.el (calculate-lisp-indent): In the
Index: lisp/emulation/cua-base.el
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvsroot/emacs/emacs/lisp/emulation/cua-base.el,v
retrieving revision 1.78
diff -u -r1.78 cua-base.el
--- lisp/emulation/cua-base.el	24 Feb 2007 21:52:43 -0000	1.78
+++ lisp/emulation/cua-base.el	21 Jul 2007 14:11:20 -0000
@@ -1582,14 +1582,25 @@
 		 (if (or (nth 1 cua--saved-state) (nth 2 cua--saved-state)) " enabled" "")))
     (setq cua--saved-state nil))))
 
-
 ;;;###autoload
-(defun cua-selection-mode (arg)
-  "Enable CUA selection mode without the C-z/C-x/C-c/C-v bindings."
-  (interactive "P")
-  (setq-default cua-enable-cua-keys nil)
-  (cua-mode arg))
-
+(define-minor-mode cua-selection-mode
+  "Toggle CUA selection mode without the C-z/C-x/C-c/C-v bindings.
+When enabled, using shifted movement keys will activate the
+region (and highlight the region using `transient-mark-mode'),
+and typed text replaces the active selection."
+  :global t
+  :group 'cua
+  :require 'cua-base
+  :lighter nil
+  :keymap nil
+  :link '(emacs-commentary-link "cua-base.el")
+  ;; nil nil nil
+  (if cua-selection-mode
+      (progn
+	(setq-default cua-enable-cua-keys nil)
+	(cua-mode 1))
+    (setq-default cua-enable-cua-keys t)
+    (cua-mode -1)))
 
 (defun cua-debug ()
   "Toggle CUA debugging."
Index: man/ChangeLog
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvsroot/emacs/emacs/man/ChangeLog,v
retrieving revision 1.1267.2.23
diff -u -r1.1267.2.23 ChangeLog
--- man/ChangeLog	13 Jul 2007 20:36:29 -0000	1.1267.2.23
+++ man/ChangeLog	21 Jul 2007 14:11:22 -0000
@@ -1,3 +1,11 @@
+2007-07-21  Reiner Steib  <Reiner.Steib@gmx.de>
+
+	* killing.texi (CUA Bindings): Add index entry for marking using
+	shifted arrow keys.  Document cua-selection-mode.  Reorder.
+
+	* mark.texi (Marking Objects): Document cua-selection-mode.  Add
+	refererence to CUA Bindings.
+
 2007-07-13  Eli Zaretskii  <eliz@gnu.org>
 
 	* Makefile.in (../info/emacs-mime): Use --enable-encoding.
Index: man/killing.texi
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvsroot/emacs/emacs/man/killing.texi,v
retrieving revision 1.60
diff -u -r1.60 killing.texi
--- man/killing.texi	11 Apr 2007 20:57:52 -0000	1.60
+++ man/killing.texi	21 Jul 2007 14:11:23 -0000
@@ -647,19 +647,22 @@
 paste (yank), and @kbd{C-z} undo.  Standard Emacs commands like
 @kbd{C-x C-c} still work, because @kbd{C-x} and @kbd{C-c} only take
 effect when the mark is active (and the region is highlighted).
-However, if you don't want to override these bindings in Emacs at all,
-set @code{cua-enable-cua-keys} to @code{nil}.
 
-  In CUA mode, using @kbd{Shift} together with the movement keys
-activates and highlights the region over which they move.  The
-standard (unshifted) movement keys deactivate the mark, and typed text
-replaces the active region as in Delete-Selection mode
-(@pxref{Mouse Commands}).
-
-  To enter an Emacs command like @kbd{C-x C-f} while the mark is
-active, use one of the following methods: either hold @kbd{Shift}
-together with the prefix key, e.g. @kbd{S-C-x C-f}, or quickly type
-the prefix key twice, e.g. @kbd{C-x C-x C-f}.
+  To enter an Emacs command like @kbd{C-x C-f} while the mark is active,
+use one of the following methods: either hold @kbd{Shift} together with
+the prefix key, e.g. @kbd{S-C-x C-f}, or quickly type the prefix key
+twice, e.g. @kbd{C-x C-x C-f}.  If you don't want to override these
+bindings in Emacs at all, set @code{cua-enable-cua-keys} to @code{nil}.
+
+@cindex marking, using shifted arrow keys
+  In CUA mode, using @kbd{Shift} together with the movement keys (the
+arrow keys, @kbd{C-f}, etc.) activates and highlights the region over
+which they move.  The standard (unshifted) movement keys deactivate the
+mark, and typed text replaces the active region as in Delete-Selection
+mode (@pxref{Mouse Commands}).  If you only want to use marking using
+shifted movement keys without the
+@kbd{C-z}/@kbd{C-x}/@kbd{C-c}/@kbd{C-v} bindings, customize
+@code{cua-selection-mode}.
 
 @cindex rectangle highlighting
   CUA mode provides enhanced rectangle support with visible
Index: man/mark.texi
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvsroot/emacs/emacs/man/mark.texi,v
retrieving revision 1.39
diff -u -r1.39 mark.texi
--- man/mark.texi	21 Jan 2007 04:41:10 -0000	1.39
+++ man/mark.texi	21 Jul 2007 14:11:23 -0000
@@ -373,6 +373,13 @@
 
   In Transient Mark mode, all of these commands activate the mark.
 
+@c @cindex marking, using shifted arrow keys
+@findex cua-selection-mode
+@vindex cua-selection-mode
+  With @code{cua-selection-mode}, @kbd{Shift} together with the movement
+keys (the arrow keys, @kbd{C-f}, etc.) activates and highlights the
+region over which they move.  @xref{CUA Bindings}.
+
 @node Mark Ring
 @section The Mark Ring
 
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

Bye, Reiner.
-- 
       ,,,
      (o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo---  |  PGP key available  |  http://rsteib.home.pages.de/