From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: storm@cua.dk (Kim F. Storm) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: cua-mode and the tutorial Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 15:26:48 +0200 Message-ID: References: <44C8F069.1070002@student.lu.se> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1156253312 13688 80.91.229.2 (22 Aug 2006 13:28:32 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 13:28:32 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Aug 22 15:28:28 2006 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GFWIo-0003r7-HZ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 22 Aug 2006 15:28:22 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GFWIn-0005hx-Va for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 22 Aug 2006 09:28:21 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1GFWIc-0005gj-PE for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 22 Aug 2006 09:28:10 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1GFWIb-0005gE-VV for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 22 Aug 2006 09:28:10 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GFWIb-0005gB-T9 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 22 Aug 2006 09:28:09 -0400 Original-Received: from [195.41.46.236] (helo=pfepb.post.tele.dk) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1GFWQD-0006K3-Sj for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 22 Aug 2006 09:36:02 -0400 Original-Received: from kfs-l.imdomain.dk.cua.dk (unknown [80.165.4.124]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id BEC0AA5004F; Tue, 22 Aug 2006 15:28:03 +0200 (CEST) Original-To: Lennart Borgman In-Reply-To: (Kim F. Storm's message of "Tue, 22 Aug 2006 15:12:56 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:58713 Archived-At: storm@cua.dk (Kim F. Storm) writes: > I tried to enter the tutorial after enabling viper-mode, > but I didn't see any information about VIPER in the help > buffer... so I don't know how to activate the stuff about > vi in your patch... Well, I tried again, and now I see it -- and I still think my objection below is valid. > In any case, I think that emacs should simply reject to run the > tutorial if VIPER is enabled (or turn it off in the tutorial and NOT > give the option to enable it in the tutorial). > > The current code to deal with this is overly complex -- and > the tutorial is about learning to use basic Emacs bindings. > > Does the tutorial make sense at all in viper mode??? The first instruction is to type C-v ... and it doesn't work as described! However, in general, your changes have a big problem. The new informational (yellow) area may take so much space on the frame that the instructions: >> Now type C-v (View next screen) to move to the next screen. (go ahead, do it by holding down the CONTROL key while typing v). From now on, you should do this again whenever you finish reading the screen. is partially or even completely hidden, so the whole point of the tutorial is lost (you have to know how to scroll before you can learn how to scroll ...). It would be much better if you just placed a few yellow lines near the top with the following wording: Some of the standard key bindings described in this tutorial have been modified, so Emacs may behave differently from what you learn here. Click here for more details: [Details] And then restore all key bindings (if possible) to their default inside the tutorial. This way, you can also structure your code so there is: - one function which simply checks if any keys are changed - one function which setup the standard key bindings - one function to show the details (in a *Help* buffer). WDYT? WDOT? > > > BTW, the patch mixes two sets of changes ... for the key binding > stuff and for running multiple tutorials at the same time. > > The latter part should IMO, never be installed -- it is just > too obscure for normal users! -- Kim F. Storm http://www.cua.dk