From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: undecided vs utf-8 Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2010 14:02:55 +0100 Organization: Programmerer Ingebrigtsen Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1288963227 3907 80.91.229.12 (5 Nov 2010 13:20:27 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2010 13:20:27 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Nov 05 14:20:23 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PEMDO-0002Pj-Rx for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 05 Nov 2010 14:20:23 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35395 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1PEMDN-0001Yh-FL for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 05 Nov 2010 09:20:21 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=56377 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1PELxq-0004rE-NN for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Nov 2010 09:05:15 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1PELwg-000586-QH for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Nov 2010 09:04:12 -0400 Original-Received: from lo.gmane.org ([80.91.229.12]:41860) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1PELwg-00057k-Aj for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Nov 2010 09:03:06 -0400 Original-Received: from list by lo.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PELwf-0007Q2-N4 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Nov 2010 14:03:05 +0100 Original-Received: from cm-84.215.34.171.getinternet.no ([84.215.34.171]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Fri, 05 Nov 2010 14:03:05 +0100 Original-Received: from larsi by cm-84.215.34.171.getinternet.no with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Fri, 05 Nov 2010 14:03:05 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Mail-Followup-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-Lines: 45 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: cm-84.215.34.171.getinternet.no Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAAGFBMVEU+fxkndwUmbweNqnkh TwgldAUmZgYpeQUYZHywAAACVElEQVQ4jV2TQVPbMBCFBQ7xtXIqfA1qrFxdxMDVUDdn7EHh6gah XqN0Mvr7fSsZJ6DxeDT7ed/uPsnMdCEElpY+rTtmuhJk/xUBGH4GJvwBoDb7xGaQ4j6S9ZB/BoZ3 CYTDmSSBLoEQDnLj3IDoMGbwMsVV27arp/2erS+lpQwCmrGsZrNG15fY1jGDRjyiw4y6rPV9nCMC 6nfAWkJ6zuZTcfMaQr5necCzt8v1Yels20Ypf9B1cuJN62RLG4uf2h9Y00ZTphpp+sCfoBLXB8AY Fq+yDNeINs3sBBZ3dfA3pd+2tm2yaAnnUNrruyx4L4xrXdvoNDmNvkJjLPCiUnbjbAQwC0poVA8/ uDC93CgbDyq5yDJ94Tn33Cin3vRskhrYVSgDgV6q1WasQROEfw+BYaBaF1K6ebSkLMqS8wWq3Gr9 EC25pwwqArFnlrF5zW4zHEdGGZ2A1rEkU8qAzF7tnHNjcX58jWH0xY2UKgIBT3igc8/RheeiGgHu D/e+DMXfjICQcqc2bhzw+xqhl18X0BI9JkwZgl/bxyzHZfjpPZcrlHbRK1QvPA3BwvGmiD0lYIT7 E/A9nYoQVS+nDOHcN53AUaDbD1Dx9jfdNhxX9HAC5sU8klE0XYH4CUBtofMacTEmuHhLyK1FzXOE qcIZMNy8PnQd7fpo1ASQlNNbTgkTMKzC58NlqmzPQI1d38bPT2C7NWapAZpUwI53t3/HK9NXVT9M 8ZSxM+/P8PAphqlyBFJCyu7w2+3O4gRUtd1uAZSzFN9MwEml5FLXo9D45/wHA7EglahWSycAAAAA SUVORK5CYII= Mail-Copies-To: never X-Now-Playing: Various's _Out Come the Freaks! (3)_: "Tone-Loc - Wild Thing" User-Agent: Gnus/5.110011 (No Gnus v0.11) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:k1T8RbcZJuD7PzX2fZvvxGl2ZCY= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:132399 Archived-At: Kenichi Handa writes: > ??? When the locale is "C", emacs prefers utf-8 the most. > > % LANG=C emacs -Q -batch --eval '(message "%s" (car > (coding-system-priority-list)))' > > should prints utf-8. Let's see... [larsi@quimbies ~/pgnus]$ echo $LANG en_US Right. Well, I have no idea where that came from... >> Well, this is about `undecided', and the C layer does DWIM-ish >> processing when you ask it to decode `undecided', doesn't it? > > I don't know which Emacs' behaviour you describe as DWIM-ish. Uhm... if you ask a computer to do something vague, and the computer does this based on settings the user is barely cognisant of, that's the essence of DWIM. In this case, it's looking at a string to try to guess what the charset is ("do something vague"), and pick an answer from the many possible based on settings the user is barely cognisant of. I don't really see why you don't think this isn't DWIM... > I think the best way is to provide users an easy way to > specify a correct coding-system when they see a decoding > error as well as the method to customize the default > coding-system for erc. So erc should pop up a message saying "even though this looks like utf-8, I can tell from your locale spec that you're not expecting this, so here's a list of 45 different charsets to choose from that the string might be in, and I'll ask you this question for every IRC string until you set a precedence list of charsets which I'll then force you to choose between because utf-8 and iso-8859-1 isn't distinguishable anyway"? It somehow doesn't seem maximally user-friendly. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen