From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Thomas Fitzsimmons Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [Proposal] New EUDC backend for macOS address book Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2020 10:46:54 -0400 Message-ID: References: <8da7df5281e91d8a351f97c0837d79b7@condition-alpha.com> <298df6a619aa45393b0ae9250123faef@condition-alpha.com> <866ca4b62cf30015aa28bfb9a2566dff@condition-alpha.com> <6b3f662271587fae0f88a5130e55d02e@condition-alpha.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="13171"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.91 (gnu/linux) Cc: jean.christophe.helary@traduction-libre.org, Alexander Adolf , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Richard Stallman Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Jul 14 16:47:37 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jvMDX-0003H3-LN for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 14 Jul 2020 16:47:35 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:56318 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jvMDW-0002Ft-L7 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 14 Jul 2020 10:47:34 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:56770) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jvMCy-0001p5-64 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 14 Jul 2020 10:47:00 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-qt1-x82c.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::82c]:38266) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jvMCw-0003Yd-2j for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 14 Jul 2020 10:46:59 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-qt1-x82c.google.com with SMTP id a32so12976584qtb.5 for ; Tue, 14 Jul 2020 07:46:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fitzsim-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=itmdHec3F+NpwHveqxMfn/E21tbNHa7nlxsIdudpJZg=; b=JnIQvN5Fl7SAWXTF4VdtlBkJCPy4afFzF9NQK08B+bhWQ7qtsdlDPKf/fvZI++9qXe CWehz6oitp3Lw4PD4IFTX9GT+Np0SMcd88LgUZtD7w3X0FrT7ewxhU+QlpptAieh0FCS T/a9iOQSkeHrNMTU9XSWFTy3pqsEmF/M32ULT8zJuT4OB9HhNq+bfYknYtOh3AKMT5w8 4po/0IDOj15thv3vXloibci6VYh/pQHXUKx8MUd1xYYnCTN3KGt2gLXOwK97R0JkgkCt bZcSeoNpUHX/q7mxpyHkbabfG/r5cGxBUCLxaHQ0WfIx1JTph/rwU00aTLk8gXoz+ZPk hdwA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=itmdHec3F+NpwHveqxMfn/E21tbNHa7nlxsIdudpJZg=; b=tGlP+1KDorBTcVFXOCSIqEqSFLR7eEvJ3M1hJ+gn+bzI/9lLw2wZDj5hLumrBaDeDo +2xXLE4OUIGZ9q96lApoKvvPpV6l6azXwxtCn3MN2deTJGPmfckuKAi/suwRvB20UH3F +Ng7NG4yhykN1vlF31ZxUwg+KkB98RQ1//Q3AUekVPyufKr3iu8ORlICaDMbv5wMSLCH xxPqTNGjbTQluBTMJ3oligCpoK26r7WQqvVhJNTrQEaMvtlYobA0pW/u/GthEW/Rfwhw w73gidFsEG2FFcMtRI1AtCNg0+PldVeMmrSRVAVOfqxuVHWMg3+qOmzxvR4MY01aGyVR jfcw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533IyHqeqkzaxsG9sHIjtQa15Gj44Qj2KnHgCiuT2Xh75vQr0W1U AdE3lbmYTTLno+NA/VnJU/xPWMAZ+VYFYIgj X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwTv06dz5taM3migvbNGj7gf3gIfbC/+tYQf3cEYSKRK+3oPg/Caunn06fQZk8Yy5aDtGAZNA== X-Received: by 2002:ac8:1809:: with SMTP id q9mr5141296qtj.107.1594738016270; Tue, 14 Jul 2020 07:46:56 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from localhost.localdomain (69-165-165-189.dsl.teksavvy.com. [69.165.165.189]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id m4sm24920868qtf.43.2020.07.14.07.46.55 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 14 Jul 2020 07:46:55 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Thu, 09 Jul 2020 23:53:31 -0400") Received-SPF: none client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::82c; envelope-from=fitzsim@fitzsim.org; helo=mail-qt1-x82c.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:252949 Archived-At: Hi Richard, Richard Stallman writes: [...] > Which document is this patch for? doc/misc/eudc.texi > It seems to say positive things about various MacOS applications. OK, if you read something as positive there, then we can change or remove it. There was an earlier draft that was positive, but then I had Alexander make it factual. > Are those applications free software? No. > If not, we should not suggesting that people use them. > > Please see the node References in the GNU Coding Standards for our > general policy about references to nonfree programs. Basically, it is > ok to mention them only if the reader surely already knows about them, > but don't encourage people to use them. Yes, I thought the committed patch satisfied these requirements. > For example, it is ok to mention MacOS because the reader surely has > already heard of it, and ok to say how to make Emacs work with MacOS > (for the sake of users who are already using MacOS and want to use > Emacs). But don't say anything that might encourage people to try > MacOS if they don't already use it. In particular, don't describe its > functionalities or advantages. OK, from my re-reading, the only sentence that is questionable is: "macOS Contacts is the rolodex-like application that ships with the macOS operating system." How about we remove that sentence, and change that whole section to just: "EUDC considers macOS Contacts as a directory server back end just like LDAP, though the macOS Contacts application always resides locally on your machine. macOS used to be called Mac OS X, and the Contacts application was previously called Address Book; the EUDC macOS Contacts backend also works on those older versions." That provides compatibility and other information about how existing macOS Contacts users can switch to using it via EUDC. If there's something else you consider positive, are you able to quote it from the current (master tip) version of doc/misc/eudc.texi? > The same questions apply to any nonfree program that runs on MacOS, > but the anwers will be different. Will Mac users who try EUDC > generally already know about macOS Contacts? I don't know. Generally speaking, I don't know, and I don't feel qualified to comment since I don't use Apple products. However, I know of one specific example, the user who submitted the new EUDC backend. Alexander, a macOS user, was already using macOS Contacts for his address book. He wanted to use EUDC, so he extended EUDC to interface with macOS Contacts. One possibility this opens up for him and other EUDC/macOS Contacts users is a workflow whereby one uses EUDC to complete email addresses from macOS Contacts, then bbdb-snarf's them into BBDB, and so gradually migrates to a Free Software address book solution. > If so, you can talk about how to make EUDC work with macOS Contacts -- > but please don't say anything about how to use macOS Contacts itself, > or what it can do. Makes sense; that's what we attempted to do with the committed eudc.texi changes. Thomas