From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jeff Clough Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Guile in Emacs Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 09:54:02 -0400 Message-ID: References: <4B8147A9.7030504@gmail.com> <873a0cyv3r.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <87aauiho3y.fsf_-_@lifelogs.com> <1271028837.6164.55.camel@dell-desktop.example.com> <1271102739.6067.38.camel@dell-desktop.example.com> <8039yz34ka.fsf@tiny.isode.net> <1271173887.6067.53.camel@dell-desktop.example.com> <87FA5F05CB9C41409B9E72BD06D7C8CF@us.oracle.com> <87fx2xp839.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <3EFDD45EB5AD4018B8FEA8F13CFEDA32@us.oracle.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1271339691 466 80.91.229.12 (15 Apr 2010 13:54:51 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 13:54:51 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 'David Kastrup' , Drew Adams , "emacs-devel@gnu.org" To: Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Apr 15 15:54:49 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1O2PWl-0004OE-Cg for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2010 15:54:48 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46399 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1O2PWh-0003fQ-1Q for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2010 09:54:39 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1O2PWa-0003f0-NY for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2010 09:54:32 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=41821 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1O2PWY-0003eZ-Gv for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2010 09:54:32 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1O2PWD-0005HS-EG for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2010 09:54:15 -0400 Original-Received: from hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([71.74.56.124]:39030) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1O2PWD-0005H8-Bv; Thu, 15 Apr 2010 09:54:09 -0400 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=fBoeiQUdCPFYkf/ogivDuUUJ8T/GUdptomsnt0mqf60= c=1 sm=0 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=wN3dDBks/ChO7xvezkoALQ==:17 a=qb5RLdrWAAAA:8 a=wU4WrEdHbAIK1Q95kgwA:9 a=CiyY9jnzHG-GxPWjDYQA:7 a=TI0HCNq04_wp37L-0mIAgOcYAHkA:4 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=Mbv68m0LDs4A:10 a=wN3dDBks/ChO7xvezkoALQ==:117 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-Originating-IP: 74.70.71.134 Original-Received: from [74.70.71.134] ([74.70.71.134:54034] helo=logrus.localdomain) by hrndva-oedge02.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.2.39 r()) with ESMTP id 11/F4-16481-B7A17CB4; Thu, 15 Apr 2010 13:54:04 +0000 In-Reply-To: (christian lynbech's message of "Thu, 15 Apr 2010 14:49:17 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.1.95 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:123707 Archived-At: writes: > Jeff> It is also important for that information to be available in one place. > > I agree that Emacs should come with all relevant documentation bundled > up as part of the package, but I can not see that this is the same as > everything necessarily has to sit inside (the moral equivalent of) one > single gigantic texinfo file. Neither do I, but what we have today works. That's what I'm for. Don't fix what isn't broken. Or, more appropriately, don't fix what Emacs seems to be the only application to do *right*. For Emacs itself, there are exactly four places, organized by context, someone has to look to find the information they need. 1. The Emacs Manual - How to use Emacs as an editor. The only Lisp found here is for basic, simple configuration. This is for people that don't want to learn Lisp, they just want to use Emacs as an editor, run macros, dired, etc. 2. The Emacs Lisp Intro - Teaches the basics of Emacs Lisp. How to use defadvice, creating a simple major mode, etc. This is for people just getting started, or who want to know only how to write a simple function to accomplish some task this afternoon. 3. The Emacs Lisp Reference - Describes every function, macro and language construct with a few explainations. There may be more information to be had about a particular thing, but it at least lists all things with *some* amount of description. This is for people seriously interested in the language who want to browse for ideas/knowledge, read something away from their computer or copy a quick "toy" example (if available) and make it work for them right now. 4. The online documentation/what you get from describe-function and it's kin - The definitive reference to every symbol you can throw at Emacs. Assumed to be up-to-date and accurate. This is for people knee-deep in code right now that can't remember what the third argument of the function at point needs to be, or can't remember if what they want is insert-file-contents or insert-file-contents-literally. All four of these sources have their proper use, and none of them could be used to duplicate exactly the purpose of any other. And it covers all of the contexts you'd want documentation (IMHO) well, in a minimum number of places. > There will need to be easy acces to the reference just as we get today > easily can get from the documentation of a function to its source > definition and there should probably be some top-level entry points with > proper reading guidance just as the editing library manual should of > course link to the language manual where relevant. I think having cross references between the four sources described above is a great thing. There should be more of that today. Jeff