From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: call for more ert tests Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2013 13:06:18 +0200 Message-ID: References: <838v1zjrnl.fsf@gnu.org> <8361x3jqsy.fsf@gnu.org> <8338s7jp53.fsf@gnu.org> <87bo6vb8uo.fsf@wanadoo.es> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1372158405 14676 80.91.229.3 (25 Jun 2013 11:06:45 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2013 11:06:45 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jun 25 13:06:46 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1UrR5B-0006OJ-7I for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 25 Jun 2013 13:06:45 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:56041 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UrR5A-0005iz-Nu for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 25 Jun 2013 07:06:44 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:59366) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UrR51-0005ig-FK for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 25 Jun 2013 07:06:43 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UrR4x-0006Sj-Vp for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 25 Jun 2013 07:06:35 -0400 Original-Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]:55457) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UrR4x-0006S0-EP for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 25 Jun 2013 07:06:31 -0400 Original-Received: from cm-84.215.51.58.getinternet.no ([84.215.51.58] helo=stories.gnus.org) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UrR4l-0000tW-9D for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 25 Jun 2013 13:06:19 +0200 Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAAGFBMVEVEERj95eSlrMn43N7g y9BcSGx5faX+7usdHYhrAAACRElEQVQ4jV2TzYsjIRDFZaBzdwx4XSqm7x2b2XNsJ3sNA3rOup26 hxnof39faXf2Q0IC/nxV5fNFEcVIk6/rkhmreBM4KSIKYGOM0fcVzD72fAVwIhpBRga4p5nwpQSE 6DWWOQnghBoCuJCbjAD9hvP31ECnkoC6r99xPKVcCLWUSploBeMxrYD6q7pmLmdbgXkXwBtIqZwf TXEXQc8CEkCeh1bqhO17Ji4uVsCHJtBvAMQAhxHdpdLyBIV6KjSdmCto+7oX4IbPEC9MmLdMVtex 4IQ7L8vyFUIBUHmyaGKGPYzVFmA5BarAyVRGvzL/XOr6jNQDsBs2q743sDwCQFdIzDVDz7NdwTIC rF4Zw/xL601yEQFNtQnzWT82yavaAaCJl6n8JsDIake9k1pm0KN/9lg+1Y7ZkUP7QRuvn2Sv8Mxz cN4byc/w7P6lOijCFqxBW9NEDwCHxLkN6Mu5SSqg48sq0fty2ECJIX/bRb+mtBSL57ECxLCdi1WD F8K7wWwrFzyKYeiE1QP8WB52sTLVDRbjh5ABDO/QAJPBRCS7Agm0hAyzWr3IFvYVctYjVplnXBGW bqBDAgUkbnG1FaCURFASnYqvzzlYTMoiwKcG9OBblAZprnZJVVFKH5MorH5YOanytbVJafaiqBfM uEadS3VdylXQANGtu6tGpFKVaK9VDNeX2wo+3NTMN35QMd6yWkGMq/tYykGytag+boBqTFuL+V9w XYFKH0/JKCD9BwTFCHDcJMnFP0vV//Q67V/74Tfm0wBnpcZ6lgAAAABJRU5ErkJggg== X-Now-Playing: David Byrne and Brian Eno's _My Life In The Bush Of Ghosts_: "Moonlight in Glory" X-Hashcash: 1:23:130625:ofv@wanadoo.es::0pWuZht7L19sWCmR:000ITMO X-Hashcash: 1:23:130625:emacs-devel@gnu.org::+EuhCJcgaI8lzBqH:000000000000000000000000000000000000000000rSoF In-Reply-To: <87bo6vb8uo.fsf@wanadoo.es> (=?iso-8859-1?Q?=22=D3scar?= Fuentes"'s message of "Mon, 24 Jun 2013 21:35:11 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.130008 (Ma Gnus v0.8) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) X-MailScanner-ID: 1UrR4l-0000tW-9D MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1372763179.53188@3VZL6n+LRPlPctmVcHKuKg X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 80.91.224.195 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:161018 Archived-At: =D3scar Fuentes writes: > Eli Zaretskii writes: >> >> I believe it's good, obviously. The problem is with introducing it >> without losing too many contributors. I think the bar to contributing to Emacs is high enough as it is without adding further requirements. > I wonder about the possibility of making Emacs testing an "interesting" > task. Something like a test framework which is complete and expressive > enough to allow describing testable conditions on a very high level way. ert is fine, but, I think, somewhat misguided. It allows us to test the functions we have Lisp interfaces for, but not the deep internal C bits. And that's kinda backward. When I write Lisp code, I'm testing it interactively all the time. What should this function return? Does it return what I'm expecting? No? *hack hack* Now? Yes. Done. You really need a test harness more for languages where you don't have that extremely rapid and natural write-test-write cycle, because nobody can test stuff that requires a compile (or startup) cycle as thoroughly as that. For instance, when I wrote the :max-width/:max-height code the other day, the result depends on six different things: image width/height, and the four :width/:height/:max-width/:max-height parameters. If I could have called that function from Lisp directly, I would have tested a much larger variety of combinations than I ended up doing. So my feeling about adding more ert tests is: Meh. More work to write, more work to maintain, doesn't really give us that much. --=20 (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/