From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Sascha Wilde Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: A wish, a plea Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 09:57:34 +0200 Message-ID: References: <4679F561.4030600@hacksaw.org> <87d4zomyiw.fsf@red-bean.com> <87fy4kjy0k.fsf@red-bean.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1182499024 2660 80.91.229.12 (22 Jun 2007 07:57:04 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 07:57:04 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Hacksaw , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Karl Fogel Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Jun 22 09:57:02 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1I1e0n-00071I-5w for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 22 Jun 2007 09:57:02 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I1e0d-00054S-8F for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 22 Jun 2007 03:56:47 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1I1e0a-00054D-0N for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 22 Jun 2007 03:56:44 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1I1e0U-00053t-QL for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 22 Jun 2007 03:56:43 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I1e0U-00053q-N2 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 22 Jun 2007 03:56:38 -0400 Original-Received: from ns.km1136.keymachine.de ([62.141.58.119] helo=km1136.keymachine.de) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1I1e04-0001NJ-8h for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 22 Jun 2007 03:56:22 -0400 Original-Received: from kenny.sha-bang.de (xdslm043.osnanet.de [212.95.112.43]) (authenticated bits=0) by km1136.keymachine.de (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.10) with ESMTP id l5M7to33020264; Fri, 22 Jun 2007 09:55:50 +0200 Original-Received: from wilde by kenny.sha-bang.de with local (Kenny MUA v.0409034.42) ID 1I1e1O-0003vM-SW; Fri, 22 Jun 2007 09:57:34 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87fy4kjy0k.fsf@red-bean.com> (Karl Fogel's message of "Thu\, 21 Jun 2007 23\:36\:59 -0700") User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.1.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-kernel: Linux 2.4-2.6 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:73587 Archived-At: Karl Fogel wrote: > Sascha Wilde writes: >> I'm actually using *scratch* quite often, as a scratch pad for stuff I >> don't want to save (and don't want to be asked, if I want to save them >> on exit), as well as for ad-hoc elisp stuff. > > Unlike most users, you know how to change any default anyway. True, and I will if I have to. But the defaults define the first impression a new user gets from Emacs, and back when I chose Emacs, I liked the impression of a powerful hackertool with defaults suiting my needs. *scratch* is not the one big killer feature, but it's one piece in the puzzle -- and yes I admit, I'm selfish and I love and want to retain this "written by hackers for hackers" kind of software. :-) > We could retain it, but make one of these changes as well: > > a) the initial selected buffer be a Fundamental Mode or Text Mode > buffer ("scratch", "notes", whatever), with buffer-offer-save > turned on by default. > > -or- > > b) if we just want to retain *scratch* as-is, that we at least > default to buffer-offer-save in that buffer, in stock Emacs. > > Do you object to both (a) and (b)? I strongly object to (b) as it is against the idea behind *scratch*. I could live with (a) given that: 1. The new default buffer is not called *scratch* 2. *scratch* will be still available after starting Emacs (though not being switched to by default) 3. The old behavior could be easily restored by setting i-am-an-old-school-hacker-and-want-my-scratch-buffer-back to t (or something like that). ;-) > We can keep the *scratch* buffer, if we must, but are you really > saying that it should also be the default selected buffer, I like it that way, but as said, it can be made optional, if people insist on that change... > and it should not offer to save on exit by default? Yes! This is an important part of the concept of *scratch*. sascha -- Sascha Wilde Nothing is fool-proof to a sufficiently talented fool.