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[2003:e0:b74e:6900:4d93:7c30:6cf9:1eca]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id ffacd0b85a97d-38a1c8acabbsm46945203f8f.93.2025.01.06.00.25.31 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 06 Jan 2025 00:25:32 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: ("Gerd =?UTF-8?Q?M=C3=B6llmann?="'s message of "Mon, 06 Jan 2025 04:57:37 +0100") X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:298632 Archived-At: Gerd M=C3=B6llmann writes: > Eli Zaretskii writes: > >>> From: Gerd M=C3=B6llmann >>> Cc: pipcet@protonmail.com, 75322@debbugs.gnu.org >>> Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2025 21:04:56 +0100 >>>=20 >>> Eli Zaretskii writes: >>>=20 >>> > How can we possibly make sure this works reliably and safely?? For >>> > each variable we have in every function, we will need to analyze >>> > whether the variable is >>> > >>> > . an automatic variable >>> > . a static variable that is protected by someone >>> > . a global variable that is protected by someone >>> > . a result of dereferencing a pointer that is somehow protected >>> > >>> > etc. etc., where "protected by someone" means that it is a descendant >>> > of some staticpro, or of some root, or... >>> > >>> > And if we cannot prove to ourselves that one of the above happens, >>> > then we'd need to force a copy of the variable to be on the stack? >>> > >>> > Does this sound practical? >>> > >>> > If this is the price of using MPS, and I'm not missing something >>> > obvious, then it sounds like we should run away from MPS, fast. >>> > Because we will sooner or later have to rewrite every single line of >>> > code we ever wrote. >>>=20 >>> I'm bowing out again. It's not worth it. >> >> I don't understand why? I need to understand the implications to be >> able to make decisions, which are part of my job. So I ask questions, >> and I'm grateful for your answers, which clarify the issues for me. >> That I sometimes sound overwhelmed by the implications shouldn't be >> held against me, it's just a normal human reaction, nothing more. > > I don't hold that against you, that's why I'm trying to answer > questions, write stuff up, and so on, but for me your reply before this > one was a leaf node in the thread. > >> From my POV: So we're talking about things, you want to make it > concrete, we land in call_process, I explain why SAFE_NALLOCA is unsafe > when used with references even with the old GC, you think references are > on the stack because the parameter args is on stack, and I say no. > > Next thing I get is a rant. You don't even say "you're right" or "you're > wrong", so I don't know for sure if you accept my argumentation or not. > Instead, you write something that came across here as "unreasonable, > can't be true, we have to change every line of code, let's run from > MPS". > > What should I reply to that? Nothing of course. > >> If I somehow sound impolite, I apologize. > > No worries about politeness. It wasn't impolite, and I'm not very > sensible anyway. Not being sensible is true also, but s/sensible/sensitive/ :-)