From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: John Wiegley Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Update of pcase docs for the elisp manual Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2016 17:28:30 -0800 Message-ID: References: <87d1stznc6.fsf@web.de> <83io2k5yvg.fsf@gnu.org> <838u3c18w3.fsf@gnu.org> <83y4bcytk6.fsf@gnu.org> Reply-To: John Wiegley NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1454031062 15576 80.91.229.3 (29 Jan 2016 01:31:02 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2016 01:31:02 +0000 (UTC) Cc: michael_heerdegen@web.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Jan 29 02:30:54 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1aOxtl-0000mL-8u for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 29 Jan 2016 02:30:53 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:59300 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aOxtk-0004ef-FE for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 28 Jan 2016 20:30:52 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:49653) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aOxtR-0004dp-7C for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 28 Jan 2016 20:30:34 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aOxtQ-00057H-4K for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 28 Jan 2016 20:30:33 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-oi0-x22c.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4003:c06::22c]:35447) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aOxtK-000558-VM; Thu, 28 Jan 2016 20:30:27 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-oi0-x22c.google.com with SMTP id p187so38639693oia.2; Thu, 28 Jan 2016 17:30:26 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:date:message-id:references :user-agent:reply-to:mail-followup-to:mime-version:content-type; bh=PpkTi0WniynnKEdmA7oYQZWpc9gz7LmEn+Fecn3w+5M=; b=m9N+Aq4/YyKskpAgpFeFX2pSJ5F1234jqCkNGdWjaCDzzvg42H3PHFTgptAfO05sFE LJ99JAobLX3BJELBP7FD4Lk7066bKtFlk/Ye3JeKCzxEM4IaabncYq8jD+XS59F5sWqo +DC9HGpVfts/hb8fKrYdUu6siBrVu/6/bArZTFb1ODoanplkdpXOyetNJvv7SIyS9635 jhik8bmnEE++ZHRqIj+filbxtnNaf/5ND2UoCTmPF7t25pyQIG9gskxOvIpNYZ+38Orj 6q9z2M8n4vf9ivKyzTW7Viy4yWr+lQUvzLxko+uNLlniHR0r3taf6pgHd+u6+gE8rsEf Nwgw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:date:message-id :references:user-agent:reply-to:mail-followup-to:mime-version :content-type; bh=PpkTi0WniynnKEdmA7oYQZWpc9gz7LmEn+Fecn3w+5M=; b=akoyEZUDeOvoGgk86Gq+FzHfdnPVh79BR0txquBLCPM5KlxC0ddOjrFj2kVho349LZ 65aTR6wDXJR0jqpB+v05myza9PdmqneohXbdtxeUhzZ9Vn+Uf3IStj3M4nlHiq56A0Fq U8QmVCpImorWZCx9yTeAGRyLFlmefHjFKm0D3lR1ay98eXHW9TfQZs6QbVxLJPUK6amj oInyZB3iivUaqQQdB/p9UAOvNxS/BrcMvqaZpma+X9JpV463fahx36PpezUtPH1XZtYz 9Mc8vT9eOqMEtnQtvWILtlgzDZRMIT9K/AENbgIekkGeDEmBuIDjPBHEYcP++rGWfxQg PD2A== X-Gm-Message-State: AG10YOQtOAEzl8FlrY9vsd/xBEmH05SE67RRdaTBt95ZRFfKVexvfR2B6NPLpifpPYmC6Q== X-Received: by 10.202.224.10 with SMTP id x10mr3991972oig.48.1454031026235; Thu, 28 Jan 2016 17:30:26 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from Vulcan.local (76-234-68-79.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net. [76.234.68.79]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id e3sm2871660obf.7.2016.01.28.17.30.25 (version=TLS1 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 28 Jan 2016 17:30:25 -0800 (PST) X-Google-Original-From: John Wiegley Original-Received: by Vulcan.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 997211297B534; Thu, 28 Jan 2016 17:30:24 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <83y4bcytk6.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Tue, 26 Jan 2016 22:28:09 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.130014 (Ma Gnus v0.14) Emacs/24.5 (darwin) Mail-Followup-To: Eli Zaretskii , michael_heerdegen@web.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4003:c06::22c X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:198969 Archived-At: >>>>> Eli Zaretskii writes: >> > AFAIU, your division into logical and literal was different from the >> > division between UPatterns and QPatterns. That's why I didn't use those >> > terms. >> >> Could you explain a bit more how they were different? Such variance was >> intended. > Sorry, I didn't keep your text after I finished working on this. If you send > it to me again, I will try to explain. All I meant is, as far as I can tell, UPattern = logical, and QPattern = literal, without any variation. So isn't it just a name substitution, and isn't that better than UPattern and QPattern? >> Ah, so they are syntactical simpler, but not semantically simpler. > No, they are also semantically different: they allow more generalized > matching rules. Different yes, but that's not simpler. The rules for understanding what a quoted pattern will do are incredibly trivial: it matches per eq with the scrutinee at that position. The rules of understanding what a UPattern will do are far more complicated, and can even be extended use pcase-defmacro. >> Hmm. Maybe we should drop the statement about simplicity and just say we're >> presenting UPatterns first. > Like I said: I don't own the manual... > I do wonder why these minor nits trigger such a large portion of the > comments. They are there to make the text easier to read, so it isn't too > dry. If people dislike that style, it's fine with me to delete those parts, > but what about "the meat"? Did I succeed to write something that can be > studied and learned from? Anything, really, is a move forward from what we had before. It's sufficient for 25.1 in my opinion. -- John Wiegley GPG fingerprint = 4710 CF98 AF9B 327B B80F http://newartisans.com 60E1 46C4 BD1A 7AC1 4BA2