From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Van L Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: [offtopic] Re: Ctrl-[ ? Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2019 22:38:46 +1000 Message-ID: References: <96B116FC-8007-4C42-9AE6-585530D0C76E@comcast.net> <87muisor2h.fsf@telefonica.net> <63F9D100-CD25-445B-8184-93A25DB0FC38@comcast.net> <874l4zoiz6.fsf@telefonica.net> <8A953A06-0B89-4026-8801-602C0D8B2CA1@comcast.net> <20190614122416.GA17606@tuxteam.de> <20190615094422.GA3890@tuxteam.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="98037"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (darwin) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jun 15 14:40:34 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hc7yz-000PP2-Am for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 15 Jun 2019 14:40:33 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:60424 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.86_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hc7yy-0007YM-DY for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 15 Jun 2019 08:40:32 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:34299) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.86_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hc7yl-0007WU-HP for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 15 Jun 2019 08:40:20 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hc7yc-0003zb-L8 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 15 Jun 2019 08:40:14 -0400 Original-Received: from [195.159.176.226] (port=48270 helo=blaine.gmane.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hc7yY-0003wp-2E for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 15 Jun 2019 08:40:06 -0400 Original-Received: from list by blaine.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hc7yV-000Os7-45 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 15 Jun 2019 14:40:03 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Cancel-Lock: sha1:t0O45CrMql46acjvN5OjD3oDs14= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 195.159.176.226 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:120963 Archived-At: writes: > On Sat, Jun 15, 2019 at 07:12:28PM +1000, Van L wrote: >> Choose the keys comfy for you relative to thumb over modifier key and >> finger tips poised to strike like in a DOOM Eternal Deathmatch. > > It's more complicated than that: on the one hand, there's a strong > incentive for /one/ default set of keybindings (a baseline, so to > speak): documentation, tutorials, help forums, etc. (imagine you had > to parametrize them with $deity-knows-what-weird-keybinding-set, they'd > spread pretty thinly). I don't know waht is the proper meaning of the Hyper or Super key modifier in relation to Emacs. Assuming they are meaningless, using those don't interfere with the legacy /one/ default set of keybindings. >> > I'm sure there are multitude of other language-specific keyboard >> > layouts sharing that weakness... >> >> Localise the layout. > > See above. I think, realistically, that a non-standard layout is > (except maybe a few exceptions) a difficult balance act. More than > it seems at first blush: a key binding set is, after all, like a > new language -- you get a "tower of Babel" effect if you multiply > that. The TCP/IP stack is a 5 or 7 layer tower of babel :-) My feeling is if you have 50 Emacs people who love Emacs in a boundary of 50 million people who use Emacs, and the 50 million people can vote on the most natural comfy feeling layout, which happens to select those 50 people's layout in the first place, the distribution should be big enough to let users choose from those layouts. > Now I'm not arguing against using the flexibility Emacs provides > here, quite on the contrary. I'm just stating that it doesn't come > at zero cost (on the "social" side). > >> > But I didn't want to open /that/ can o' worms -- just to raise >> > a bit of awareness. >> >> I don't have the luxury of 3 modifier keys right of my spacebar and have >> the following experimental layout. The CAPSLOCK 'on' doesn't function >> like holding the SHIFT key down for, for example, '(kbd "H-S-l")'. > ... [snip] > > I don't think there's "a solution" to that. It helps being aware of > the multitude of factors involved. [ ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯ ] nuff said -- © 2019 VanL gpg using EEF2 37E9 3840 0D5D 9183 251E 9830 384E 9683 B835 'The mouth is the dirtiest part on the human body.' - Bill Wallace