From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?utf-8?Q?Gerd_M=C3=B6llmann?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Some experience with the igc branch Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2024 17:05:40 +0100 Message-ID: References: <87o713wwsi.fsf@telefonica.net> <86zfkjznat.fsf@gnu.org> <86ldw2zy6s.fsf@gnu.org> <87h66p5fy6.fsf@protonmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="20291"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: Stefan Kangas , Eli Zaretskii , ofv@wanadoo.es, emacs-devel@gnu.org, eller.helmut@gmail.com, acorallo@gnu.org To: Pip Cet Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Dec 27 17:06:36 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1tRCrD-00055F-Pn for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 27 Dec 2024 17:06:35 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tRCqc-0006Qz-C4; Fri, 27 Dec 2024 11:05:58 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tRCqT-0006QZ-HF for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Dec 2024 11:05:51 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-ed1-x532.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::532]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tRCqS-0006PN-0J; Fri, 27 Dec 2024 11:05:49 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-ed1-x532.google.com with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-5d3bbb0f09dso12439482a12.2; Fri, 27 Dec 2024 08:05:46 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1735315545; x=1735920345; darn=gnu.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date :references:in-reply-to:subject:cc:to:from:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=lLRzHPfTLh1EpoIrEBdAEL0tFFTkvp47Ymf1KvdcCzY=; b=Ct5P6SY+hjrXcQhj+TrSnhGjL4UFYngVXpF7VZgvbIVlgGQYXOrcizWcEVZ7O136kF jNiC35eKUvAWY7MM+Wt7uFCyUwj5Lu3XeDfWuXZMPa3xGTfVkbJVPYCz1dCsYgjHqmtv NpBZYM6WweshRPCoeuI8N1CgjPx3dbh6p/n20+fiKPKrKw+Qg+NIF1hmaSdo+nX/vapv vanL6NE8xoDE6xoeWkYtTONW5235NEeMqdVyMf6mW3DbnPbO46Xje59RMiCZ1nEKD0Lx mkQ8cB+bXv90vJzpePuAx2myDnW4WpRZK5ebhuDVJnTJuPXYlE7uQ+RSgJDrkYMOsWUe x2LQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1735315545; x=1735920345; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date :references:in-reply-to:subject:cc:to:from:x-gm-message-state:from :to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=lLRzHPfTLh1EpoIrEBdAEL0tFFTkvp47Ymf1KvdcCzY=; b=YlNFSWA05R/wcSe41imJCi0OU1kGa/z1DNtOkUoYaT6twa/wwz2O9L9i58fEMY8fEl czaoMb+aIh2n3Gy/eo4WXrXSJNT6DFTStkGatVIxdk8mjlf/Qk/DNIG3VIrvB6CEJI2I Uhc22dwMCyodSAI7KJ6DvoCFgbJAxNpB+4A+JB0HBcgA4gFEMb1RVxJlufI/Vgml46hg 4AcK+BwaerE99LaaD2gdJWxMfT/45Jn07eaiDbnppsqhthR49TIapure14hutyN8Jm/F zFI7eMi+9tbMiVRLan6p6uAgW2JcZz95pGobG5CNSltku6lkXIr3OcrKM4rT749JdzAo n06w== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCUYCoJLjnS7ZhQsDLRxPKBBBT2PLN3OKR8enUz/36F5DKQYyI931bjrrpm4ncP3A2Iv7w5snA==@gnu.org, AJvYcCUiG4Svhzz6zBeyoLmS2TiVlQCauZcQzvsh3jO30776ww9m5Vvn5Ur9frLs7VRVOVJLV+DvBOmEBw==@gnu.org, AJvYcCVmwFqBRQTUZf87ZDZZ70UXuLU/VVGoG2EsfVYf9cwz1EqLarjmBiXeaV6vqlB/oktGjJRmjnFrckGv/K4=@gnu.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxQWICJ1AmOkqu1Cjf6kEqkPlJt0xp7GSpnLQKX1jONBbtVLphe lDw2FOPpDyPlhvqtUPUGt8N5nZZb7En5rsCyScQ+TnGMfzQD2KPI/P5ArA== X-Gm-Gg: ASbGnct1uRE9W4kMd9pw/EKn938ePXKxw+JWunWFYw/Idxowl5/Q6sbZYYcIFgxiWWO 7iYlp0KrwIO5G9pS5+NwIWkwVbyHHwYc5qGJ7WcCzctWVqfSiAQfJav1fIjwKm2mQ9rSoMylfV7 ThKk7L5ekts8hdCHUhYYCsLPeQ8ty6AGg2WuwtLekRProVC+ToXbtHh6nWy66qOa6AT5EqdUrZ3 WHlzLaMjY09ItgKh7q7aq9S1vN/Pgch6Gzr2kDiRf1pMXrTLmeMQy7GMgFfy4qj/StwnAuNNsh0 AfkWCi2IVswGvklWBMq17UfdNpCnD+BgsPsvA1Sc01AkxVPZzfGA87n7EXU0 X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IF73sNcbbLshqsrLwz8RFwuJnUmLHtL3OVUfrVZiWnMAlbc/RDBIa7Wmv9Rl45t+kGAA6EKUA== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6402:27d4:b0:5cf:a1c1:5289 with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-5d81de48c0bmr19335180a12.21.1735315544271; Fri, 27 Dec 2024 08:05:44 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from pro2 (p200300e0b74e5900bde19f98ca9a60df.dip0.t-ipconnect.de. [2003:e0:b74e:5900:bde1:9f98:ca9a:60df]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-5d80701c9d7sm10910821a12.87.2024.12.27.08.05.41 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Fri, 27 Dec 2024 08:05:42 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <87h66p5fy6.fsf@protonmail.com> (Pip Cet's message of "Fri, 27 Dec 2024 15:01:11 +0000") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::532; envelope-from=gerd.moellmann@gmail.com; helo=mail-ed1-x532.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:327214 Archived-At: Pip Cet writes: > Gerd M=C3=B6llmann writes: > >> Gerd M=C3=B6llmann writes: >> >>> I've reached the point where I don't know what else to explain. Could >>> always be improved, of course, and so on. Please find attached, with >>> request for feedback. >> >> Ahem, just remembered that I had already an admin/igc.org in the branch, >> so I've now replaced that with what I've written. > > Thank you very much! > >> - Concurrent. The GC runs in its own thread. There are no explicit >> calls to start GC, and Emacs doesn't have to wait for the GC to >> complete. > > I don't think that's true right now (it is what I want for Christmas, > though). On GNU/Linux, the GC usually runs on the main thread. On > macOS, the GC can run on the main thread (allocation) or on the SIGSEGV > handler thread (memory barriers); in both cases, the main thread has to > wait for it to complete. You mean what happens when an allocation point has used up its memory, and needs to get some more? I haven't looked what percentage of GC time that takes. Also, the GC steps I didn't mention. One has to make a cut somewhere. Anyway. If people agree that something should be there, please add it. That's the advantage of it being in git. For me :-). > I'm not sure it's ever useful to make the assumption that GC isn't > concurrent: it is very hard to do so, but it is possible. > > Maybe Eli knows more; I posted a patch to force concurrent GC for > debugging a while ago, and Eli told me not to because it would produce > false positives. I'm not so sure about the "false" part now. > > Pip