From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jon Snader Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: ns-do-applescript Date: Mon, 30 May 2022 19:47:28 -0400 Message-ID: References: <871qwbd999.fsf@yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="36795"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: mu4e 1.4.15; emacs 28.1 Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Po Lu Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue May 31 04:21:59 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nvrWA-0009L9-U9 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 31 May 2022 04:21:59 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:38978 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nvrW9-00070p-KG for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 30 May 2022 22:21:57 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:46742) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nvp71-0006fr-ND for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 30 May 2022 19:47:51 -0400 Original-Received: from gateway13.unifiedlayer.com ([67.20.65.212]:37440) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nvp6z-0000vx-5Y for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 30 May 2022 19:47:50 -0400 Original-Received: from cm6.websitewelcome.com (unknown [108.167.139.19]) by gateway13.unifiedlayer.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF6E92018D389 for ; Mon, 30 May 2022 18:47:35 -0500 (CDT) Original-Received: from shared120.accountservergroup.com ([162.215.249.103]) by cmsmtp with ESMTP id vp6lnGnjD8f6zvp6ln2vQl; Mon, 30 May 2022 18:47:35 -0500 X-Authority-Reason: nr=8 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=irreal.org; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date:In-reply-to:Subject: Cc:To:From:References:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=hu1BB6H8qcld1/A5IzctmLx6rCVISQDWIXRwNCAV2eE=; b=GiyZ5ENkg/F9yizt4eHoEjWv+q wnG7IFCLWpiBR98+tjWy0GR7zd6xCW0H3bpxDxnEGUjUwmxxp4jU24Cui7ltTZFyjh8Ua8ena4I/T LUl5c4FdO+ecxPKcfWV+UrpW2adVaAzo4bEgrWmcEI4l1cdcR+5W3WyG1V9JczSkYMZYkLaCuviO3 Eh1MHe15C9kwfLKh21YX4kchj90ebmctnWYk9iI65jpkO3P0YqduCbmFbrFWRXHLAWprdGmqkbO+r tNgl1Q+HKXgwgkYOljRI6/lLGgvYK7n/YVX+RP7TRwuDfFht11vLkRPjhfZ96pXYKuj+wHci4N1jv fF7V/0Jw==; Original-Received: from [35.141.151.138] (port=58853 helo=Manfred.local.mac.com) by shared120.accountservergroup.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.93) (envelope-from ) id 1nvp6k-000pGA-Vr; Mon, 30 May 2022 18:47:35 -0500 In-reply-to: <871qwbd999.fsf@yahoo.com> X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - shared120.accountservergroup.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - irreal.org X-BWhitelist: no X-Source-IP: 35.141.151.138 X-Source-L: No X-Exim-ID: 1nvp6k-000pGA-Vr X-Source-Sender: (Manfred.local.mac.com) [35.141.151.138]:58853 X-Source-Auth: jcs@irreal.org X-Email-Count: 2 X-Source-Cap: YzY3ODU3O2M2Nzg1NztzaGFyZWQxMjAuYWNjb3VudHNlcnZlcmdyb3VwLmNvbQ== X-Local-Domain: yes Received-SPF: pass client-ip=67.20.65.212; envelope-from=jcs@irreal.org; helo=gateway13.unifiedlayer.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 30 May 2022 22:20:59 -0400 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:290391 Archived-At: Po Lu writes: > We don't want to make things convenient for Mac users, when > those things > are not possible on a free system. Just as Emacs doesn't > provide > "OS-specific interface routines" to perform tasks on non-free > operating > systems that are not possible on free ones. Do you hear yourself? I don't want to be impolite and I do, believe me, appreciate the hard work that you and the other Emacs maintainers selflessly provide to the community but this is beyond silly. In the first place, Emacs predates Linux by almost two decades and during that time it ran exclusively on what we now call non-free systems so there's no sacred free system purity baked into its DNA. Emacs being free software has traditionally meant that Emacs /itself/ is free and not that running it on a proprietary system made you a second class citizen. No one is asking you or anyone else to do any extra work. All we ask is you leave what is already in place alone. If you aren't a Mac user, it doesn't hurt you in any way but if you insist on removing it you will (1) make extra work for the maintainers, (2) likely break existing software, and (3) annoy Mac users. You can say we deserve it for being insufficiently pure but do you really want to alienate your second largest user base? That attitude will not, I promise you, result in anyone abandoning macOS for Linux but it could very well result in disgusted users abandoning Emacs for something like VS Code. I'd hate that and I'm sure you would too. I'll accept whatever the community decides but I'm having a hard time understanding how this is even controversial.