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[2003:e0:b74e:6900:4d93:7c30:6cf9:1eca]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 5b1f17b1804b1-4366128a62asm550716565e9.44.2025.01.05.19.57.38 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sun, 05 Jan 2025 19:57:38 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <868qrp6mbs.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sun, 05 Jan 2025 22:24:23 +0200") X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:298626 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: Gerd M=C3=B6llmann >> Cc: pipcet@protonmail.com, 75322@debbugs.gnu.org >> Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2025 21:04:56 +0100 >>=20 >> Eli Zaretskii writes: >>=20 >> > How can we possibly make sure this works reliably and safely?? For >> > each variable we have in every function, we will need to analyze >> > whether the variable is >> > >> > . an automatic variable >> > . a static variable that is protected by someone >> > . a global variable that is protected by someone >> > . a result of dereferencing a pointer that is somehow protected >> > >> > etc. etc., where "protected by someone" means that it is a descendant >> > of some staticpro, or of some root, or... >> > >> > And if we cannot prove to ourselves that one of the above happens, >> > then we'd need to force a copy of the variable to be on the stack? >> > >> > Does this sound practical? >> > >> > If this is the price of using MPS, and I'm not missing something >> > obvious, then it sounds like we should run away from MPS, fast. >> > Because we will sooner or later have to rewrite every single line of >> > code we ever wrote. >>=20 >> I'm bowing out again. It's not worth it. > > I don't understand why? I need to understand the implications to be > able to make decisions, which are part of my job. So I ask questions, > and I'm grateful for your answers, which clarify the issues for me. > That I sometimes sound overwhelmed by the implications shouldn't be > held against me, it's just a normal human reaction, nothing more. I don't hold that against you, that's why I'm trying to answer questions, write stuff up, and so on, but for me your reply before this one was a leaf node in the thread. >From my POV: So we're talking about things, you want to make it concrete, we land in call_process, I explain why SAFE_NALLOCA is unsafe when used with references even with the old GC, you think references are on the stack because the parameter args is on stack, and I say no. Next thing I get is a rant. You don't even say "you're right" or "you're wrong", so I don't know for sure if you accept my argumentation or not. Instead, you write something that came across here as "unreasonable, can't be true, we have to change every line of code, let's run from MPS". What should I reply to that? Nothing of course. > If I somehow sound impolite, I apologize. No worries about politeness. It wasn't impolite, and I'm not very sensible anyway.