From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Filipp Gunbin Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Emacs Book Vs Emacs Manuals Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2015 19:56:30 +0300 Message-ID: References: <554C9356.5000204@gmail.com> <20150508125314086261755@bob.proulx.com> <87bnhuc177.fsf@mbork.pl> <55561B9E.4070101@arlsoft.com> <87y4kpfvct.fsf@debian.uxu> <87mvzmv7ef.fsf@nl106-137-147.student.uu.se> <871tgycjae.fsf@mbork.pl> <87lhf53v4t.fsf@nl106-137-147.student.uu.se> <87h9pqul7q.fsf@nl106-137-147.student.uu.se> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1435683427 309 80.91.229.3 (30 Jun 2015 16:57:07 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2015 16:57:07 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jun 30 18:56:56 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Z9yq8-0003q3-Az for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 30 Jun 2015 18:56:56 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:47918 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Z9yq2-0001s2-9t for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 30 Jun 2015 12:56:50 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:46804) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Z9ypn-0001rj-Ge for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 30 Jun 2015 12:56:40 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Z9ypj-0001rW-QA for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 30 Jun 2015 12:56:35 -0400 Original-Received: from out4-smtp.messagingengine.com ([66.111.4.28]:38345) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Z9ypj-0001rD-HI for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 30 Jun 2015 12:56:31 -0400 Original-Received: from compute1.internal (compute1.nyi.internal [10.202.2.41]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEAB62022F for ; Tue, 30 Jun 2015 12:56:29 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from frontend2 ([10.202.2.161]) by compute1.internal (MEProxy); Tue, 30 Jun 2015 12:56:29 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fastmail.fm; h= content-type:date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :references:subject:to:x-sasl-enc:x-sasl-enc; s=mesmtp; bh=r37wv IiccwcTNCAfc8L+NxJxBTc=; b=lFFGD3OrHgibE8hPWOamOyAO9P0/LScL4PMjp 39LZJ2k8UouUOCNBpobCXTPOQxULVskJhHggmz/jA309I9cUpI1C/8hO7u64j8uX Ti8Gd3m61dtnNZErfUmmhBnPKhdZke217ZIktO3mewKZt9bwNw/+MOiEL0S+JIcn KlUzXc= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-sasl-enc :x-sasl-enc; s=smtpout; bh=r37wvIiccwcTNCAfc8L+NxJxBTc=; b=dBIWz /lARTuMTk5GPdx1adlR4GYDXAjMIPgbRCW4zU1rImv5akEZ86F2J+MdlrQUz83to o2rQSR4j5a4zgEmYK7eHifXTbF090AG9gszeUdX+QV8z7ff1OApLeobocn4CnmOX 6+8nAG7Dm9mSthfjVRJ6HR70PlYXZv9pdH9WhE= X-Sasl-enc: qQB7AaCDbhil+bB2uNlIwtKJV+NAXys8A7/HfkOIWmei 1435683389 Original-Received: from fgunbin.local (unknown [94.25.218.10]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 5E3436800F4 for ; Tue, 30 Jun 2015 12:56:29 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <87h9pqul7q.fsf@nl106-137-147.student.uu.se> (Emanuel Berg's message of "Tue, 30 Jun 2015 01:51:53 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.50 (darwin) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 66.111.4.28 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:105334 Archived-At: On 30/06/2015 01:51 +0200, Emanuel Berg wrote: > Filipp Gunbin writes: > >> Macros can be viewed as an Emacs-specific way of >> writing programs - by using the benefits of an >> interactive editor. > > Macros are even in the *name* of Emacs so they would > seem essential. That christening was a long time ago, > of course. > > There are macros in many other tools. Perhaps they are > not editable. Probably the whole thing is not as > refined as in Emacs. > >> Resulting code is not that editable, but in my >> practice I didn't usually have to edit that code, >> when it's easier just to re-record a similar macros, >> if needed. > > So you don't write code - you write macros to write > the code for you. Now we have ventured far beyond my > horizon. It would be interesting to see you in action. No no, you misunderstood or I wasn't clear enough. It's simpler. A macro is a program, too, and it's editable as you know, but written in a different language. When I record a macro I get some code in the end, yet it's not elisp. That's what I meant by saying that macros help write code _using interactive editor facilities_ - that is, not directly typing language syntactic constructs. It's quicker and simpler to record a macro, but the cost of it is the lack of general usefulness. This is obvious, and I'm writing it because you time after time refuse to admit that sometimes macros are better than elisp. I suppose you have reasons to say that, that's why this discussion can be interesting to me. >>> When you have done something with Elisp, you can >>> save that for future use. What it is is clearly >>> defined and easy to read and edit. Not only that, >>> if it is modular, as it should, you can use it for >>> other, unexpected things in the future. >> >> Why then use awk when you always can write >> equivalent program in C? > > Answer: because awk is ... Yes, thanks, that was a rhetorical question :-) Meant to underline that programs written in a language not general enough to handle all and everything also can be useful sometimes, and awk is a good example, I think. Filipp