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[217.227.105.113]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id f20-20020a05600c155400b003c6f3e5ba42sm515561wmg.46.2022.11.08.22.57.31 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Tue, 08 Nov 2022 22:57:32 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <87leol9ifb.fsf@gmail.com> (=?utf-8?Q?=22Jo=C3=A3o_T=C3=A1vor?= =?utf-8?Q?a=22's?= message of "Tue, 08 Nov 2022 22:43:04 +0000") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::42f; envelope-from=gerd.moellmann@gmail.com; helo=mail-wr1-x42f.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:299383 Archived-At: Jo=C3=A3o T=C3=A1vora writes: > But even if they are installed, I don't think they negate the need for > CL packages or make them any harder to implement. I suspect it could make it harder to achieve backwards-compatibility. I can't prove it, though, because I set shorthands out of scope for my experiement. Let me try to explain: The main problem with staying backwards-compatible was the triple of functions (intern, intern-soft, symbol-name), alone and in combination, what semantics they currently expect and how that fits with packages. That's what I found during my experiment. The simplest example is keywords: (intern ":a") currently makes a keyword, with the semantics that any symbol whose name starts with a colon is a keyword, and symbol-name will return a name that includes the colon. That doesn't fit well with CL packages, where the colon is interpreted as part of a qualified symbol name, the symbol-name is "a" and the empty string in front of the ":" is the (empty) nickname of the keyword package. Like I said, that's the super-simple form of the problem. I guess one can find every possible variation of that problem somewhere in the wild. Without taking shorthands into account, one can make an educated guess what semantics the code expects, and use that to become backwards-compatible. I suspected that was the case, which was the initial reason I started the experimeent. Yeah, I know, what a nerd :-). And it proved true, without shorthands at least. Experiment done. With taking shorthands into account, these "guesses" don't really hold much water. Or so is my gut feeling ATM. P.S. I have an alternative idea how to "guess", but I don't know if it's practically feasible, works well enough, and yadda yadda. See admin/cl-packages.org in the branch. Just a side note :-).