From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Robert Pluim Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: "Why is emacs so square?" Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 14:23:16 +0200 Message-ID: References: <86blno9yle.wl-me@enzu.ru> <87d0845msg.fsf@yahoo.com> <87h7xgjasw.fsf@yahoo.com> <875zdwjais.fsf@yahoo.com> <6a198677-41b6-4dbd-39d0-2b01550d53cf@yandex.ru> <32f6a2ce-e30f-059f-dcd4-233d666a10a1@yandex.ru> <87r1whiape.fsf@fastmail.fm> <87blnjopd0.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <83v9lregx0.fsf@gnu.org> <83v9lqclfi.fsf@gnu.org> <83h7x9b3p3.fsf@gnu.org> <83wo659jbd.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="9530"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: joostkremers@fastmail.fm, rms@gnu.org, mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Apr 24 14:24:04 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jRxNE-0002Kp-Ay for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 14:24:04 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:34144 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jRxND-00059X-CW for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 08:24:03 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:46110) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jRxMX-0004Q0-Q2 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 08:23:22 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jRxMX-0006E0-8M for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 08:23:21 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-wm1-x32b.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::32b]:40590) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jRxMW-00064m-RZ; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 08:23:20 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-wm1-x32b.google.com with SMTP id u16so10471832wmc.5; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 05:23:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:gmane-reply-to-list:date:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=YMB79kS8H11FhW3R36XMMabf45AXSLN86mtZgHXO0Lw=; b=mN5AYJqhMviI8Jh3ztJb/OYyt82RWVn0PtxIuK06JNk9nSdT7bOnRAzPehVBdQGURo 6R6BEtgvoVLl6jiCDdSgvPCZuBsvlZE5LYprxqWq5MJtBXF656X/NX/ixRtGy5qjDZ2G TtgKWWBzA6hpixhMUIW+dF8YZi+qZl14EMVnHK3xEyHQQi8BsrUqqMvelgSonp1WuhRE luDHg9qXtUAUKdHYTZ3XeZvhkK6WZm5R18Ae3BsuVUBs1koj+H/w1KYIPmkS+jYI/eC7 aGloW8j3S+wP8Gs8yuzoDWX9cvVas4x97F9208Ilw/5EPk5lqgLXtSM8Ew3eFIG+wkdp 11QQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references :gmane-reply-to-list:date:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding; bh=YMB79kS8H11FhW3R36XMMabf45AXSLN86mtZgHXO0Lw=; b=kkCwxosEwfnVg09dTRaspVDtE6+ESpef/H9N4JZaSGxn7DrhxCUwaUcHcN2Q32un0G NZRhw/qpjafYmMvxepReBix3SNvev71qw4CWQUSFvZlkNUyZmmSoQMz2GEC2D5Vjr91D KzpsIA8SoHMYYKMw+wEeEcC7v2zVbEAtEk0c/869Ts9NJy8xuCKDNxbZnMyDo2Pgfg74 EEIYTAv5cpF9dfUcxJg47CpLTYcKBJKwLz+sXobNlXzIxjFHVJ97EPDpBepVkv0nDYLJ PPhUXnpGfZRp9yhXqPU8tdaFaLy4JB7HARRDTcU2jGUbVWobQ9tfGoiAawVGe0eU3ifq jcww== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuYbEvLUsiGDxvf4KpYSdu8jDw3NzCyQLg1ttbRKHZ+W/CVzgWI1 aAHZPgbHz5enDawSBMRoIAvUzgKPdqU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypLfj+mK6328gyoaGRrGvvwuIFpJh3W4etXTw2OTTtZP8n9++Oncc0IE02qTpP8j6EGdmA6Gbg== X-Received: by 2002:a1c:8106:: with SMTP id c6mr9797543wmd.88.1587730998096; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 05:23:18 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from rpluim-mac ([2a01:e34:ecfc:a860:bd9a:ec93:82f0:3a9a]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id h188sm2935781wme.8.2020.04.24.05.23.17 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Fri, 24 Apr 2020 05:23:17 -0700 (PDT) Gmane-Reply-To-List: yes In-Reply-To: <83wo659jbd.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 24 Apr 2020 15:09:26 +0300") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::32b; envelope-from=rpluim@gmail.com; helo=mail-wm1-x32b.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: [-] PROGRAM ABORT : Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). Location : parse_addr6(), p0f-client.c:67 X-Received-From: 2a00:1450:4864:20::32b X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:247695 Archived-At: >>>>> On Fri, 24 Apr 2020 15:09:26 +0300, Eli Zaretskii said: >> From: Robert Pluim >> Cc: rms@gnu.org, joostkremers@fastmail.fm, mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr, >> emacs-devel@gnu.org >> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 13:34:13 +0200 >>=20 Eli> I think we should try changing the documentation first, as that is= a Eli> Good Thing anyway. When that is done, we could consider whether a= ny Eli> code changes are needed. (I actually expect that to become evident Eli> while the documentation is re-written in the directions I proposed: Eli> whoever will do that job will discover that, for example, to be ab= le Eli> to produce a stand-alone document with Org, one would need features Eli> that currently belong to some unrelated Org part -- which would me= an Eli> some code needs to be added or modified to make that feature Eli> seamlessly available to document-writers.) >>=20 >> That depends on what you mean by 'stand-alone'. The built-in Org mode >> from 'emacs -Q' can export to at least html, latex, pdf and odt by >> default, of which only latex and pdf require the installation of ext= ra >> external tools. Eli> That's orthogonal. By "stand-alone" I meant a document that doesn= 't Eli> require support from any additional Org features, like TODO notes, Eli> calendar appointments, etc. Just a document that includes structu= red Eli> text. None of those additional features are *required* for a document. All you need to produce a document is org-markup, like This is some *bold* text, this is some /italic/ text, and this should be =3Dmonospace=3D You don=CA=BCt even have to use headings if you don=CA=BCt want to. Or footnotes. Or links. Or inline latex. But you *can* if you want to. Robert