From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Helmut Eller Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Package initialization Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2015 18:37:42 +0200 Message-ID: References: <87twt1dmxu.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <21931.51113.826895.663216@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1437323880 9348 80.91.229.3 (19 Jul 2015 16:38:00 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2015 16:38:00 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Artur Malabarba , emacs-devel To: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Jul 19 18:37:55 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZGrb7-0000ht-Vu for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 19 Jul 2015 18:37:54 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:52037 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZGrb7-0006O2-AT for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 19 Jul 2015 12:37:53 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:33273) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZGrb4-0006Nw-R4 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 19 Jul 2015 12:37:51 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZGraz-0007rX-SV for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 19 Jul 2015 12:37:50 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-wi0-x22b.google.com ([2a00:1450:400c:c05::22b]:38788) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZGraz-0007rR-LE for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 19 Jul 2015 12:37:45 -0400 Original-Received: by wibxm9 with SMTP id xm9so7865249wib.1 for ; Sun, 19 Jul 2015 09:37:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-type; bh=QzTemn6MKJ77IiCdsGI6SHurExGNWgIPyEPJHFEuuWQ=; b=mZ67+BNcL40gMIeTFx3mfwkuZ2gMTbm9pAbkW9LWCI5r3MMxRbVsxK07zOaY2jQ4J6 1GHXxkJY96NU3qy1ZORI+mFgAqBEMA90J3BZNQPM/XalyBfevRjHq1b55P5iuXN/gBpN MBALGwovCAh00QwNzgDVaWP00RpbYxvI0ybrDO61AJ4dJPpaQ61OJL3zxbqW0DFWisV8 BjaldZnniX2a7auQ6XHE/QoyVgZkx/Sz/0yXZKrqMqhf+zzywCl5K/POhdeZ/oHRBRtl zomt2gSPDW+/zmgaaMhOaaEc9Im7cDjtDy51InTaksf31Db6EeOq1jIvsAPMPI8ROVbt RDcA== X-Received: by 10.180.94.168 with SMTP id dd8mr13915183wib.76.1437323864888; Sun, 19 Jul 2015 09:37:44 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from ix ([212.46.170.156]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id pd7sm27832562wjb.27.2015.07.19.09.37.43 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 19 Jul 2015 09:37:44 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from helmut by ix with local (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1ZGraw-0000Wp-CP; Sun, 19 Jul 2015 18:37:42 +0200 In-Reply-To: <21931.51113.826895.663216@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> (Stephen J. Turnbull's message of "Mon, 20 Jul 2015 00:52:09 +0900") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2a00:1450:400c:c05::22b X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:187991 Archived-At: On Mon, Jul 20 2015, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > > Calling it lazily when a SLIME related command is invoked the > > first time would kinda work for SLIME, but it would be rather strange > > that say the slime-connect command implicitly adds hooks to > > lisp-mode-hook. > > Why is that stranger than saying that slime-setup implicitly adds > hooks to lisp-mode-hook? Or stranger than saying that simply > installing the SLIME package on your system implicitly adds hooks to > lisp-mode-hook? Because slime-connect is supposed to create a connection to an external process. Not mess around in with some mode-hooks and minor-modes. > > In general, lazy initialization would also not work well if those > > autoloaded commands should be bound to keys because before the > > first invocation the keys would not be bound. > > Why would you expect them to be bound? The existence of a package > doesn't necessarily mean that the user wants it invoked at startup. > If the user does want those keys bound, I don't see why it's a problem > to have the user put a call to slime-setup in .emacs, or put it on > lisp-mode-hook itself. > > If users really object to that, well, you're right -- the XEmacs > policy would not satisfy their requirements. But in a setup where > package installation implies package initialization, putting a call to > slime-setup in .emacs looks quite silly. package.el seems to be so designed that package installation implies package initialization. I don't like that but I can't change it. Helmut