From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: John Wiegley Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Maintainers and contributors (was: Contributors and maintainers) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 22:40:22 -0700 Organization: New Artisans LLC Message-ID: References: <87si59wj42.fsf@T420.taylan> <878u6znii9.fsf@T420.taylan> <877fmjj9p6.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87zizfm2dq.fsf@T420.taylan> <871tcr7yvq.fsf@fastmail.com> <87mvvfm0bd.fsf@T420.taylan> <56250803.5080601@cs.ucla.edu> <87a8ren5ys.fsf@T420.taylan> <56259BB1.3070908@cs.ucla.edu> <878u6ykmvt.fsf@T420.taylan> <87h9llvo98.fsf@members.fsf.org> <5626622A.3090707@yandex.ru> <87zizdijbp.fsf@T420.taylan> <56267302.7050606@yandex.ru> <87io61igyu.fsf@T420.taylan> <56267CDF.6010201@yandex.ru> <87wpuhh15s.fsf@T420.taylan> <562683B9.1060305@yandex.ru> <83y4exe71v.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1445492456 9097 80.91.229.3 (22 Oct 2015 05:40:56 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 05:40:56 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Taylan Ulrich =?utf-8?Q?=22Bay=C4=B1rl=C4=B1?= =?utf-8?Q?=2FKammer=22?= To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Oct 22 07:40:40 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Zp8cA-0003Me-N0 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 07:40:38 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:56405 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Zp8cA-0004GW-8R for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 01:40:38 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:36325) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Zp8c4-0004FG-Si for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 01:40:33 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Zp8bz-0000AL-Sp for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 01:40:32 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pa0-x22d.google.com ([2607:f8b0:400e:c03::22d]:33310) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Zp8bz-00009f-N0 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 01:40:27 -0400 Original-Received: by pabrc13 with SMTP id rc13so76770086pab.0 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 2015 22:40:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=sender:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:date:organization:message-id :references:user-agent:mail-followup-to:mime-version:content-type; bh=OE4Mw3msz6zxC/jhjsmYWyEE3FsunNLSWtbRZmk5fe8=; b=YZzPx997JmnnMneUWsJeBVw85mzmFMH/OXSAiAjy3/chSUBflQ1ttae2xsw8H9QPdr 88v7n76FnBO3pFAZUjN0vnv1S+4fmT8PS6Z3peVOPP9zD+aouyOzQCHQcgw78t3STkI+ HhRcB87a8noIrg/2SlENxbcwWS+rzbST0WWg/rHX0hVwtZjiEUZ+cfaB5SGY7m9Ll8Md pszf8A2d7CUSbuokL1TV7uZo+1Psw/P6x51RaNiF5JOcVFZhQyeS3CRihZsGmZmT02rB OFB8qa82F1/rStJP6f2APIvr1vERQkAqFFabTZ2kAX3fQfxqIuNudT3uKwi8TlFrlxkF PwJQ== X-Received: by 10.68.213.4 with SMTP id no4mr15367414pbc.85.1445492427011; Wed, 21 Oct 2015 22:40:27 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from Vulcan.local (76-234-68-79.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net. [76.234.68.79]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id gw3sm12121072pbc.46.2015.10.21.22.40.25 (version=TLS1 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 21 Oct 2015 22:40:25 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by Vulcan.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 33EEBF6E8127; Wed, 21 Oct 2015 22:40:24 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: (John Wiegley's message of "Tue, 20 Oct 2015 16:34:12 -0700") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.5 (darwin) Mail-Followup-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org, taylanbayirli@gmail.com (Taylan Ulrich =?utf-8?Q?=22Bay=C4=B1rl=C4=B1=2FKammer=22?=) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:400e:c03::22d X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:192348 Archived-At: >>>>> John Wiegley writes: > Part of the debate seems to be a lack of appreciation of the difference > between contributors and maintainers. You see, it is not sufficient to have > a good idea, no matter how clear it is to its submitter. *We* maintain > Emacs, and so the change must satisfy *us*, no matter how thick our skulls > may be. If we ask for clarification that Wednesday follows Tuesday, either > you provide us with that clarification, or the change doesn't go in. Period. After I sent this message, it occurred to me that while I had strongly represented one side of this equation -- the needs of maintainers -- I had omitted to stress the importance of contributors. Thanks to RMS for reminding me of this discrepancy. Now let me expound on that side of things. While it's true that maintainers must agree to what they will maintain, and that contributors must -- to play in our sandbox -- reach some accord with the maintainers, this may have made it sound like maintainers are all important, and contributors are only incidental to Emacs' success. But that is only half of the story. What moderates the maintainers use of authority is the fact that contributors are our *number one* most valued resource. As good, energetic and diligent as a maintainer may be, he or she cannot perform the work of a hundred, of a thousand people. Contributors can do this. The role of a good maintainer is to enable and coordinate this massive sea of energy toward the best end results for our project. This typically leads to an easy and natural balance: Contributors respect maintainers, so their code is accepted; and maintainers respect contributors, so they generate more code. As long as this synergy is maintained, we all become more potent than we could ever be alone. So I'd like to emphasize, to our maintainers, that we must strive to make patience, kindness, and consideration, our primary attributes when dealing with contributors -- especially those new to the process, who are developing their first impressions, and based upon which will either continue to help us, or walk away frustrated. [This is not a reflection of malfeasance on anyone's part this week; simply it is a reminder that our contributors are the lifeblood of our project, and will someday soon be taking our place.] John