From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: John Wiegley Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: A better UI than perform-replace Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2015 08:31:58 -0800 Message-ID: References: <56480D6C.2080408@yandex.ru> <876112xj2i.fsf@gmail.com> <87vb90yum7.fsf@mail.linkov.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1447950877 8720 80.91.229.3 (19 Nov 2015 16:34:37 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2015 16:34:37 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Dmitry Gutov , emacs-devel , Oleh Krehel , Juri Linkov To: John Yates Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Nov 19 17:34:32 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZzSAJ-0007P0-S3 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 19 Nov 2015 17:34:31 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:42808 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZzSAJ-0006AZ-6Y for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 19 Nov 2015 11:34:31 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:53953) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZzSAF-00069E-5O for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 19 Nov 2015 11:34:27 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZzSAA-0004ov-Lh for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 19 Nov 2015 11:34:27 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-pa0-x22a.google.com ([2607:f8b0:400e:c03::22a]:33601) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZzSAA-0004ol-GJ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 19 Nov 2015 11:34:22 -0500 Original-Received: by pabfh17 with SMTP id fh17so88617617pab.0 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 2015 08:34:22 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:date:message-id:references :user-agent:mail-followup-to:mime-version:content-type; bh=4y7b6BuOGtMpQDfvCjIVdGvKbD9qs0KjUDE5KgoW0gM=; b=VDfGqviaDoqRZCQD54WQexF/KlFBfOK+FY48I61OYFMtKC6/B6/w63AoCC0NITs3M4 TP/evcdeH1OwrRm2y1+echXKddUam1xo4lzTodTZXOHik+FQ5kHYZZaDy6piq8FyMyzI ICobSbCdLjMVequMjzu/rJxRAQ8eqUTGzAgq6+t197PO/nrc/1US8FIliLYee05WAj3u rfII9W6eL16iw7uJe9RvgN8u6ABK9KUzYv+9B5eToMn9y+Yz3II0EUyO+ZPTpH1+mfTA R3YeCvCpLVgxMTwfpgYxf16+vbq9gNlZtuApRVzdSXCrcPkesr8QMsaLsaNVo3+VE9r7 X8zg== X-Received: by 10.68.57.139 with SMTP id i11mr10849809pbq.66.1447950862089; Thu, 19 Nov 2015 08:34:22 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from Vulcan.local (76-234-68-79.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net. [76.234.68.79]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id xi8sm11819663pab.9.2015.11.19.08.34.20 (version=TLS1 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 19 Nov 2015 08:34:20 -0800 (PST) X-Google-Original-From: "John Wiegley" Original-Received: by Vulcan.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 5512F10A26993; Thu, 19 Nov 2015 08:34:20 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: (John Yates's message of "Thu, 19 Nov 2015 07:46:12 -0500") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.5 (darwin) Mail-Followup-To: John Yates , Juri Linkov , Dmitry Gutov , Oleh Krehel , emacs-devel X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:400e:c03::22a X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:194796 Archived-At: >>>>> John Yates writes: > I am not a power users. It would never occurr to me that the solution of a > common UI use case would be an invocation of modal behavior. > Recursive editing is noobie unfriendly. It is not particularly discoverable. > It requires maintaining a more complex mental model of the editor's state > while performing the rename. And it requires more key strokes than direct > support. Wanting to use Emacs for other editing, while in the middle of a replace operation, is fairly expert also. We don't use a separate window with "Find Next" and "Replace" buttons, as graphical editors do: we use a modal prompt in the mini-buffer. Most Emacs users expect this to mean that they must complete their operation before Emacs is fully available again. I agree that recursive editing is not well known, but the right answer may be education, rather than building new functionality for this one case, just so people don't have to learn a feature of Emacs that's (a) been available for a very long time, and (b) is handy in far more circumstances than merely find and replace. John