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From: John Wiegley <jwiegley@gmail.com>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
Cc: Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com>, emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: lax matching is not a great default behavior
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2015 08:51:21 -0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <m2mvtv1ldi.fsf@newartisans.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <837fl2qzs2.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sat, 28 Nov 2015 10:44:13 +0200")

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>>>>> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

> I will repeat up front what I've already said numerous time in other similar
> discussions: arguing about defaults in Emacs is largely a waste of time. It
> usually fails to produce any real effect except tremendous loss of time and
> energy.

I agree with Eli that our development efforts are not well spent discussing
defaults already in the wild. For two major reasons:

 1. We don't actually know what newcomers find useful. There are different
    sorts of newcomers, with different expectations, so every decision is good
    for some and worse for others.

 2. "That ship has sailed." Everyone now used to the existing default would
    have to learn (a) why their Emacs just broke, and (b) how to fix it. And
    in many cases, the cause is far from the cure.

If a change in defaults can be backed by serious evidence that we made a huge
error in judgment in the past, I'd consider it. But if it's more of a shot in
the dark based on personal preferences, we should leave it alone.

John

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  reply	other threads:[~2015-11-30 16:51 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 57+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2015-11-28  5:04 lax matching is not a great default behavior Drew Adams
2015-11-28  8:29 ` Andreas Schwab
2015-11-28 14:50   ` Drew Adams
2015-12-01  9:23   ` Andreas Röhler
2015-12-01 10:38     ` Andreas Schwab
2015-12-01 10:42       ` Yuri Khan
2015-12-01 15:38         ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-01 15:36     ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-11-28  8:44 ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found]   ` <<m2mvtv1ldi.fsf@newartisans.com>
2015-11-30 16:51   ` John Wiegley [this message]
2015-12-01 14:40     ` Richard Stallman
2015-12-01 15:55       ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-01 18:49         ` Mark Oteiza
2015-12-01 18:56           ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-01 19:32             ` David Kastrup
2015-12-01 19:36               ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-01 19:38             ` Mark Oteiza
2015-12-01 19:36           ` Artur Malabarba
2015-12-01 19:51             ` Mark Oteiza
2015-12-01 20:01               ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-01 20:04                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-01 23:31                   ` Artur Malabarba
2015-12-01 23:45                     ` Drew Adams
2015-12-02  3:37                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-02  8:23                       ` martin rudalics
2015-12-02 13:45                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-02 13:06                       ` Artur Malabarba
2015-12-02 13:44                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-02 17:25                           ` Artur Malabarba
     [not found]               ` <<83r3j6j5vj.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]                 ` <<83poyqj5qb.fsf@gnu.org>
2015-12-01 21:17                   ` Drew Adams
2015-12-02 17:52         ` Richard Stallman
2015-12-03 22:27         ` Per Starbäck
2015-12-03 23:00           ` Drew Adams
2015-12-04  0:09             ` Artur Malabarba
2015-12-04  8:28           ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-04  9:33             ` Per Starbäck
2015-12-04 10:10               ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-04 10:57                 ` David Kastrup
2015-12-04 11:19                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-04 12:04                 ` Per Starbäck
2015-12-04 14:42                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-04 17:47                     ` John Wiegley
2015-12-05  8:02                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-04 15:55             ` Drew Adams
2015-12-04 19:05               ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found]       ` <<83610ikvto.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]         ` <<CADkQgvs-WvPX=qZ0B_un9j53RF6S4V5OmDTATSW1ZwTY50o2Rg@mail.gmail.com>
     [not found]           ` <<83bna6ipn7.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]             ` <<45e1580a-863c-4bd7-82ec-38c27a0d930e@default>
     [not found]               ` <<831tb2ghkf.fsf@gnu.org>
2015-12-04 21:30                 ` Drew Adams
2015-12-04 22:16                   ` David Kastrup
2015-12-04 22:37                     ` Artur Malabarba
2015-12-04 23:08                       ` David Kastrup
2015-12-04 23:57                     ` Drew Adams
2015-12-05  7:53                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-01  3:54   ` Discussions that led to changes in the defaults, was: " Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-28  8:49 ` David Kastrup
     [not found] <<d77851fd-da55-4020-82e8-abbd13f9b048@default>
     [not found] ` <<83twnxfi0h.fsf@gnu.org>
2015-12-05  9:27   ` Drew Adams
2015-12-05 11:15     ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found]   ` <<6741424b-fb48-48d1-a2fe-a5b755373c46@default>
     [not found]     ` <<83fuzhf8op.fsf@gnu.org>
2015-12-05 15:59       ` Drew Adams
2015-12-06  1:37         ` John Wiegley
     [not found] <<c9f3197f-b5f3-42f3-817c-bf560842b4d7@default>

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