From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Robert Pluim Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Another Emacs incompatibilty Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2020 17:54:37 +0200 Message-ID: References: <86r1s648dc.fsf@shell.gmplib.org> <86wo1xz4lt.fsf@shell.gmplib.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="2543"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org To: tg@gmplib.org (=?utf-8?Q?Torbj=C3=B6rn?= Granlund) Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Aug 17 18:03:25 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1k7hbY-0000X6-8y for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 17 Aug 2020 18:03:24 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:42664 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1k7hbX-0002ME-74 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 17 Aug 2020 12:03:23 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:33660) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1k7hT9-0001bF-6U for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 17 Aug 2020 11:54:43 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-wr1-x42a.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::42a]:35937) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1k7hT7-0001AB-Gh for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 17 Aug 2020 11:54:42 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-wr1-x42a.google.com with SMTP id 88so15525282wrh.3 for ; Mon, 17 Aug 2020 08:54:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:gmane-reply-to-list:date:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=xSeYHY9ef+aMmaspSm2Spo1VCj0LcYwPBy9KcP9ixZo=; b=d8CQdPK6HsZ+1CaAgjqIvrk61/jidM44KE1M9nd97jSj5l31Jnja/evJwP6UYwQ4hD 3aD9bUZ97oCX4B0d75PK2LoYhAcfFxYw0CngGwCfcdUrDnzIBGCv/hNsUft3i1sUxe8d AafJU3ZmNYvAh+RqkdRyEFlbwn74dpzWSKwAPwJFFs3ZMtarDbSPuTypCjBw0qmC3I5w vc6MMnButttLNEoAsseebQ7gMHH+Lh0JorIkwaBcPvzp91rDJ+idUAE2Pc71nma4DwD4 t4XIe6EU2qNngBoIqfjyviDlFnmgnrHDWqlmPAnIyh9XnZf4IsMmskxoFrJDBElfcsGa JhFg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references :gmane-reply-to-list:date:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding; bh=xSeYHY9ef+aMmaspSm2Spo1VCj0LcYwPBy9KcP9ixZo=; b=Xcu9S6JfhsCuHFgqxspop1j+w12YMxKAgq8BeJby2vxUp1iUk16fuEmh/3IC1bZ2KM fz5dZ0yqz6Pcsga31Mj1WoWuO5P4R9VxAq7ywqd8gdJyDqu0cE0vxwIjZvRyJ25q8u9U YNwNS/3n8ENzUdxSzaoOJhafdapklj4VVxyuY7C6GF/cHjY4JtIJJJJIrjJdsM4fhwB5 IroM1sAKWhZ3FgKveWZ5uX66aw1c8ZP63LLG9Q7LRjnkaK8BekRX3eOL4ef2jfHzpM13 Iz4zElflY9YCLnvIp+W1brUoS76NOFhgsM3sLF5ZTNZkkQkdRnnjtyue7jdKLFg6su6M rKLg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532WOWz7fAzkSGlWnMTYPJguJD+ROi1mIWyuZF5zpILXQX0DdVy2 fEuaBNFLZ5CjRNghVK+oIbOZndV2cD4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxkCb0pvAH8q7LPhfBS/wVKvt/PHJupenShSB8a+QgTjfeXgsIL9p1ndjJghaLk4kB7eeBmFg== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6000:181:: with SMTP id p1mr15913502wrx.310.1597679679117; Mon, 17 Aug 2020 08:54:39 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from rpluim-mac ([2a01:e34:ecfc:a860:1ab:3156:7718:83e6]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 126sm31355108wme.42.2020.08.17.08.54.38 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 17 Aug 2020 08:54:38 -0700 (PDT) Gmane-Reply-To-List: yes In-Reply-To: <86wo1xz4lt.fsf@shell.gmplib.org> (=?utf-8?Q?=22Torbj=C3=B6rn?= Granlund"'s message of "Mon, 17 Aug 2020 17:14:54 +0200") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::42a; envelope-from=rpluim@gmail.com; helo=mail-wr1-x42a.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:123686 Archived-At: >>>>> On Mon, 17 Aug 2020 17:14:54 +0200, tg@gmplib.org (Torbj=C3=B6rn Gran= lund) said: Torbj=C3=B6rn> [Unfortunately, since I am not subscribed to this mailin= g list, this Torbj=C3=B6rn> follow-up mail will not have the right thread backlinks.] Torbj=C3=B6rn> To define this as a matter of balance between developmen= t progress and Torbj=C3=B6rn> compatibility is a false dichotomy. Torbj=C3=B6rn> No, emacs development is not "too fast" for me, as someb= ody suggested. Torbj=C3=B6rn> Any rate of fundamentally incompatible changes is too fa= st. Torbj=C3=B6rn> For example, changing the way something as fundamental a= s regions work Torbj=C3=B6rn> in a very mature editor is just a bad idea. A really re= ally bad idea. Torbj=C3=B6rn> By all means, define some other type of region and let t= hat have other Torbj=C3=B6rn> semantics, or, let users opt in to incompatible regions = by having them Torbj=C3=B6rn> set a variable in their .emacs. Torbj=C3=B6rn> And please do explain why inserting gremlins in my buffe= rs upon window Torbj=C3=B6rn> focus changes is progress. That=CA=BCs not progress, that=CA=BCs a bug. Did you report it? Robert