From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: John Prevost Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#4128: 23.1; term/ns-win.el does "too much", assumes wrong run order Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 11:43:18 -0400 Message-ID: References: Reply-To: John Prevost , 4128@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1253549375 10594 80.91.229.12 (21 Sep 2009 16:09:35 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 16:09:35 +0000 (UTC) Cc: "4128@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com" <4128@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com> To: Adrian Robert Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Sep 21 18:09:28 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1MplS8-0001NG-N0 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 21 Sep 2009 18:09:24 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37040 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MplS8-000182-31 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 21 Sep 2009 12:09:24 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MplQ1-0008Bh-JO for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 21 Sep 2009 12:07:14 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MplPv-000864-5j for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 21 Sep 2009 12:07:11 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=43839 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MplPu-00085x-Ui for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 21 Sep 2009 12:07:06 -0400 Original-Received: from rzlab.ucr.edu ([138.23.92.77]:39480) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MplPu-0007dG-9m for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 21 Sep 2009 12:07:06 -0400 Original-Received: from rzlab.ucr.edu (rzlab.ucr.edu [127.0.0.1]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5) with ESMTP id n8LG72xL006251; Mon, 21 Sep 2009 09:07:04 -0700 Original-Received: (from debbugs@localhost) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3/Submit) id n8LFo46r002562; Mon, 21 Sep 2009 08:50:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 08:50:04 -0700 X-Loop: owner@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com Resent-From: John Prevost Resent-To: bug-submit-list@donarmstrong.com Resent-CC: Emacs Bugs , owner@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com 2Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 15:50:04 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: owner@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com X-Emacs-PR-Message: followup 4128 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs,ns X-Emacs-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 4128-submit@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com id=B4128.12535478011486 (code B ref 4128); Mon, 21 Sep 2009 15:50:04 +0000 Original-Received: (at 4128) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 21 Sep 2009 15:43:21 +0000 X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. Original-Received: from TELPERION.WV.CC.CMU.EDU (TELPERION.WV.CC.CMU.EDU [128.237.239.129]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5) with ESMTP id n8LFhJbO001483 for <4128@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Mon, 21 Sep 2009 08:43:20 -0700 Original-Received: by TELPERION.WV.CC.CMU.EDU (Postfix, from userid 501) id D7EB25570AE; Mon, 21 Sep 2009 11:43:18 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: (Adrian Robert's message of "Fri, 18 Sep 2009 19:09:43 -0400") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.1.50 (darwin) X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 12:07:11 -0400 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:31323 Archived-At: Adrian Robert writes: > I haven't found any, whereas browsers, Terminal, iWork at least go to > beginning/end of document. But perhaps we should make this change > anyway to accomodate those coming from a Windows background. You are correct--I must have tested against a Microsoft app I was running at the time, which is of course a questionable source for "how should things work on a Mac?" Everything else I've tried treats home/end consistently as beginning/end-of-file. The only question, then, would be "is it better to be consistent with other applications on this OS, or to to be consistent with Emacs on other OSs?" >> ;;; Allow shift-clicks to work similarly to under Nextstep >> (define-key global-map [S-mouse-1] 'mouse-save-then-kill) >> (global-unset-key [S-down-mouse-1]) >> >> which provides a very surprising behavior that is unlike any modern >> computer that runs something "nextstep derived" > > While the name sounds odd, the primary behavior is to create/extend > the selection, which is common with other apps. This IS different > from putting up a font menu on other platforms, but this is a tough > call since the font panel is accessible via the tools menu and Cmd-t > already, and the shift-extend-selection behavior is one of the > oldest / most basic / most common gestures in non-X11 environments. Uh. That's not the behavior I was talking about. The behavior I'm concerned about is what happens when you shift-double-click with the above definition in force. That is very much *not* normal for any system I'm familiar with. And again, the question here is: Is it better to be consistent with other applications on the host OS, or to be consistent with Emacs on other OSs? At the very least, the choice of whether OS trumps Emacs tradition or Emacs tradition trumps OS should be consistent from OS to OS. Historically, the "normal" Emacs distribution on MacOS has always preferred to behave like Emacs on other systems, and the "change everything to make it more Mac-like and friendly" solution was Aquamacs (which is why everybody I know avoids it.) John.