From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Robert Pluim Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#36717: 25.3; greek.el: deprecated vowel+oxia combinations should be replaced with vowel+tonos counterparts Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2019 15:27:45 +0200 Message-ID: References: <87zhlbaf5d.fsf@kiddo.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me> <20190718173252.GA3093@robertalessi.net> <20190718184700.GA4886@robertalessi.net> <20190718203203.GG4886@robertalessi.net> <83tvbiv7dp.fsf@gnu.org> <83h87iur38.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="139094"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" Cc: 36717@debbugs.gnu.org, alessi@robertalessi.net To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Jul 19 15:28:18 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hoSvp-000a4b-TJ for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; 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Fri, 19 Jul 2019 06:27:47 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from rpluim-mac ([149.5.228.1]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id y24sm22177177wmi.10.2019.07.19.06.27.45 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=AEAD-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256/256); Fri, 19 Jul 2019 06:27:46 -0700 (PDT) Mail-Copies-To: never Gmane-Reply-To-List: yes In-Reply-To: <83h87iur38.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 19 Jul 2019 15:49:31 +0300") X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 209.51.188.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:163406 Archived-At: >>>>> On Fri, 19 Jul 2019 15:49:31 +0300, Eli Zaretskii said: >> From: Robert Pluim >> Cc: Robert Alessi , 36717@debbugs.gnu.org >> Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2019 10:27:35 +0200 >>=20 >> >>>>> On Fri, 19 Jul 2019 09:57:38 +0300, Eli Zaretskii said: >>=20 Eli> We could ask on the Unicode mailing list. There are Unicode exper= ts Eli> there, and they are quite friendly. If someone can come up with a Eli> comprehensive description of our situation and the issues we are Eli> trying to resolve, please write to unicode@unicode.org, and ask the Eli> questions. >>=20 >> I think reading helps >> some. Eli> It didn't help me, FWIW. >> My understanding of the situation is that the basic Greek block >> should be used, rather than the extended Greek block, for the LETTER= + >> OXIA/TONOS combinations (and the extended block versions all decompo= se >> to characters in the basic block + a combining mark). I=CA=BCm wrong about that bit in the parentheses, at least within Emacs. I should have said "decompose to characters in the basic block, which in turn decompose to a base character + a combining mark", ie GREEK SMALL LETTER IOTA WITH OXIA has decomposition GREEK SMALL LETTER IOTA WITH TONOS which has decomposition GREEK SMALL LETTER IOTA + COMBINING ACUTE ACCENT Eli> That's unrelated to the issue at hand, AFAIU. It is relevant to h= ow Eli> you set up your fonts, but not how our input methods should work. = The Eli> point there is that by using the Greek Extended block, you request= the Eli> precomposed glyphs from the font, which may or may not be accordin= g to Eli> what you want; whereas by using base characters followed by combin= ing Eli> marks you leave it to the rendering system to select the glyph. B= ut Eli> we should always keep in mind that the shaping engine we use can (= and Eli> usually does) decide to use a precomposed glyph even when we type = the Eli> character in its decomposed form. So this is not really relevant = to Eli> our issue here. Now you've confused me (or I=CA=BCve been unclear). The relevant characters in the Greek basic block do not result in glyph composition: C-u C-x =3D on =CE=AF =3D> position: 2893 of 3607 (80%), restriction: <411-3608>, column:= 13 character: =CE=AF (displayed as =CE=AF) (codepoint 943, #o1657,= #x3af) charset: unicode (Unicode (ISO10646)) code point in charset: 0x03AF script: greek syntax: w which means: word category: .:Base, L:Left-to-right (strong), g:Greek, j:Japanese to input: type "C-x 8 RET 3af" or "C-x 8 RET GREEK SMALL LETTE= R IOTA WITH TONOS" buffer code: #xCE #xAF file code: #xCE #xAF (encoded by coding system utf-8-emacs) display: by this font (glyph code) mac-ct:-*-Hack-normal-normal-normal-*-14-*-*-*-m-0-iso10646-1 (#x5DB) Character code properties: customize what to show name: GREEK SMALL LETTER IOTA WITH TONOS old-name: GREEK SMALL LETTER IOTA TONOS general-category: Ll (Letter, Lowercase) decomposition: (953 769) ('=CE=B9' '=CC=81') >> To me that implies that the Greek input methods should use GREEK TON= OS >> (\u384) consistently rather then GREEK OXIA (\u1ffd), but I couldn't >> see any explicit mention of that, and at least in my font they're >> visually distinct. Eli> I don't actually understand this assertion, because we currently Eli> provide both forms. So I fail to see a problem in our input metho= ds. Eli> What did I miss? We don=CA=BCt provide both forms within the same input method. The question is whether we should provide both, or provide only tonos, since letter + oxia were allegedly added by mistake, hence standalone oxia should not be produced. Or we could change nothing. Perhaps we should ask the unicode people :-) Robert