From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: John Wiegley Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: CL package serious deficiencies Date: Thu, 09 Feb 2012 15:09:47 -1000 Message-ID: References: <33271707.post@talk.nabble.com> <87fwemcwlx.fsf@spindle.srvr.nix> <87d39pgdu4.fsf@gnus.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1328839391 29335 80.91.229.3 (10 Feb 2012 02:03:11 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2012 02:03:11 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Feb 10 03:03:10 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RvfpO-0004uw-1d for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 10 Feb 2012 03:03:10 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:37052 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RvfpN-0000I8-8y for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 09 Feb 2012 21:03:09 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:56112) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RvfpH-0000I3-LL for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 09 Feb 2012 21:03:07 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Rvfp9-00082A-1m for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 09 Feb 2012 21:03:03 -0500 Original-Received: from plane.gmane.org ([80.91.229.3]:47600) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Rvfp8-00081z-Qa for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 09 Feb 2012 21:02:55 -0500 Original-Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Rvfp4-0004l0-5I for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 10 Feb 2012 03:02:50 +0100 Original-Received: from rrcs-67-52-71-140.west.biz.rr.com ([67.52.71.140]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Fri, 10 Feb 2012 03:02:49 +0100 Original-Received: from jwiegley by rrcs-67-52-71-140.west.biz.rr.com with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Fri, 10 Feb 2012 03:02:49 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 22 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: rrcs-67-52-71-140.west.biz.rr.com User-Agent: Gnus/5.130002 (Ma Gnus v0.2) Emacs/23.4 (darwin) Cancel-Lock: sha1:MfopIANJTlDQMGDaAWEKL22fqCA= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 80.91.229.3 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:148420 Archived-At: >>>>> Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: > Meanwhile, most of the people who program Emacs Lisp daily (i.e., people > like me) have always been in favour of including it. Who doesn't want > `incf'? `plusp'? `delete-if-not'? `position'? So you get all these > hundreds of reimplementations of all these necessary functions, only spread > over all the different packages. I completely agree, Lars. Eshell had to reimplement several functions that I knew were in cl.el, simply because of this restriction. Some of the things in cl.el -- such as loop, defun*, and a few others -- I could care less about. These are more about coding in a CL style as opposed to the equivalent Elisp style. But other functions that concern basic algorithms, such as `reduce', I really would like to see dumped into Emacs core. *With* keywords (they make some usages very clear and easy to read). I'm also one of those who has had cl.el required into my Emacs for over ten years now, and I've never once encountered a hiccup because of it. It's time has come! John