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From: "Gerd Möllmann" <gerd.moellmann@gmail.com>
To: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@posteo.net>
Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>,
	 eller.helmut@gmail.com, pipcet@protonmail.com,
	 emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: MPS: a random backtrace while toying with gdb
Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2024 06:33:29 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <m2h6d8h0py.fsf@pro2.fritz.box> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <877ce4992g.fsf@localhost> (Ihor Radchenko's message of "Mon, 01 Jul 2024 20:00:23 +0000")

Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@posteo.net> writes:

> Gerd Möllmann <gerd.moellmann@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@posteo.net> writes:
>>
>>> Note that our SIGCHLD signal handler itself does not re-enter malloc
>>> (igc_malloc in our case). It just tries to access the memory arena that
>>> is in transient state (in process of allocation).
>>
>> I think you are missing the read/write barriers that MPS puts on its
>> memory.
>>
>> Consider a single object O. At some point in time, MPS copies O to a new
>> address O', as part of the copying GC algorithm. In O it leaves a
>> "tombstone" which tells where O' is now found. Then it puts a barrier on
>> O, so that any access to O let's MPS fix the reference. (All via
>> functions in igc.c. See dflt_fwd which creates the tombstone.)
>
> It is actually clear for me.
> The problem is not with the barrier. The problem is that MPS' barrier
> handler cannot work while the arena is locked to allocate a new
> (completely unrelated) object.
>
> My reading of
> https://memory-pool-system.readthedocs.io/en/latest/design/protix.html#threads
> is that the MPS' barrier handler itself is re-entrant:

The paragraph above what you cited is

  .threads.async: POSIX imposes some restrictions on signal handler
  functions (see design.mps.pthreadext.analysis.signal.safety). Basically
  the rules say the behaviour of almost all POSIX functions inside a
  signal handler is undefined, except for a handful of functions which are
  known to be “async-signal safe”. However, if it’s known that the signal
  didn’t happen inside a POSIX function, then it is safe to call arbitrary
  POSIX functions inside a handler.

I read this as them being thinking about whether their SIGSEGV handler can
use POSIX functions or not.

>     .threads.async.protection: If the signal handler is invoked because
>     of an MPS access, then we know the access must have been caused by
>     client code, because the client is not allowed to permit access to
>     protectable memory to arbitrary foreign code. In these
>     circumstances, it’s OK to call arbitrary POSIX functions inside the
>     handler.

And the above I read as saying they can because the client is not
allowed, and blahblah...

> AFAIU, if memory barrier handler were not re-entrant, multi-threading
> would simply not be possible.

I don't understand how you come to that conclusion, sorry.



  reply	other threads:[~2024-07-02  4:33 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 68+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2024-06-29 19:12 MPS: a random backtrace while toying with gdb Ihor Radchenko
2024-06-29 19:19 ` Pip Cet
2024-06-29 21:46   ` Gerd Möllmann
2024-06-30  4:55     ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-06-30  5:33       ` Gerd Möllmann
2024-06-30  6:16         ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-06-30  6:43           ` Gerd Möllmann
2024-06-30  8:52             ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-06-30  9:43               ` Gerd Möllmann
2024-06-30 10:05                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-06-30 11:20                   ` Gerd Möllmann
2024-06-30 12:16                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-06-30 12:43                       ` Gerd Möllmann
2024-06-30  9:36     ` Helmut Eller
2024-06-30 10:00       ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-06-30 10:24         ` Helmut Eller
2024-06-30 10:43           ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-06-30 18:42             ` Helmut Eller
2024-06-30 18:59               ` Gerd Möllmann
2024-06-30 19:25               ` Pip Cet
2024-06-30 19:49                 ` Ihor Radchenko
2024-06-30 20:09                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-06-30 20:32                   ` Pip Cet
2024-07-01 11:07                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-07-01 17:27                       ` Pip Cet
2024-07-01 17:42                         ` Ihor Radchenko
2024-07-01 18:08                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-07-02  7:55                           ` Pip Cet
2024-07-02 13:10                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-07-02 14:24                               ` Pip Cet
2024-07-02 14:57                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-07-02 17:06                                   ` Pip Cet
2024-07-03 11:31                                     ` Pip Cet
2024-07-03 11:50                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-07-03 14:35                                         ` Pip Cet
2024-07-03 15:41                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-07-01  2:33                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-07-01  6:05                 ` Helmut Eller
2024-06-30 19:58               ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-06-30 21:08                 ` Ihor Radchenko
2024-07-01  2:35                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-07-01 11:13                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-07-01 11:47                     ` Ihor Radchenko
2024-07-01 12:33                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-07-01 17:17                         ` Ihor Radchenko
2024-07-01 17:44                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-07-01 18:01                             ` Ihor Radchenko
2024-07-01 18:16                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-07-01 18:24                                 ` Ihor Radchenko
2024-07-01 18:31                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-07-01 18:51                                     ` Ihor Radchenko
2024-07-01 19:05                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-07-01 19:34                                       ` Gerd Möllmann
2024-07-01 20:00                                         ` Ihor Radchenko
2024-07-02  4:33                                           ` Gerd Möllmann [this message]
2024-07-02  7:05                                             ` Ihor Radchenko
2024-07-02  7:06                                               ` Gerd Möllmann
2024-07-01 18:19                               ` Gerd Möllmann
2024-07-01 18:23                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-06-30 11:07           ` Gerd Möllmann
2024-06-30 11:06         ` Gerd Möllmann
2024-06-30 11:05       ` Gerd Möllmann
2024-06-30  9:59     ` Pip Cet
2024-06-30 10:09       ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-06-30 10:16         ` Pip Cet
2024-06-30 10:34           ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-06-30 13:06             ` Pip Cet
2024-06-30 11:10       ` Gerd Möllmann

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