From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Sascha Wilde Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: A wish, a plea Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 23:19:28 +0200 Message-ID: References: <4679F561.4030600@hacksaw.org> <87d4zomyiw.fsf@red-bean.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1182460697 1970 80.91.229.12 (21 Jun 2007 21:18:17 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 21:18:17 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Hacksaw , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Karl Fogel Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Jun 21 23:18:15 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1I1U2f-0003EU-L7 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 21 Jun 2007 23:18:13 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I1U2f-0001Hc-5I for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 21 Jun 2007 17:18:13 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1I1U29-0000rP-AC for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 21 Jun 2007 17:17:41 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1I1U28-0000qs-EK for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 21 Jun 2007 17:17:40 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I1U28-0000qb-0P for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 21 Jun 2007 17:17:40 -0400 Original-Received: from ns.km1136.keymachine.de ([62.141.58.119] helo=km1136.keymachine.de) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1I1U27-0005hi-Cs for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 21 Jun 2007 17:17:39 -0400 Original-Received: from kenny.sha-bang.de (xdslcg227.osnanet.de [89.166.134.227]) (authenticated bits=0) by km1136.keymachine.de (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.10) with ESMTP id l5LLHUTu004909; Thu, 21 Jun 2007 23:17:30 +0200 Original-Received: from wilde by kenny.sha-bang.de with local (Kenny MUA v.0409034.42) ID 1I1U3s-0006CG-5B; Thu, 21 Jun 2007 23:19:28 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87d4zomyiw.fsf@red-bean.com> (Karl Fogel's message of "Thu\, 21 Jun 2007 20\:57\:43 -0700") User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.1.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-kernel: Linux 2.4-2.6 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:73557 Archived-At: Karl Fogel wrote: > Hacksaw writes: >> So I started writing, and I wrote for quite a while, it was really >> flowing well, and I thought, hey, I should save, because I don't want >> to lose this, but in my reverie, I hit the ^X^C first. [...] >> But I wasn't in programming mode, so I was in scratch, and lost >> everything I was writing, because scratch isn't backed up by anything. > > I agree, this should be changed. FWIW I object. I'm actually using *scratch* quite often, as a scratch pad for stuff I don't want to save (and don't want to be asked, if I want to save them on exit), as well as for ad-hoc elisp stuff. I like the feature of having *scratch* at hand from the beginning in every emacs session, and I would miss it... [...] > - It's true that "*scratch*" today opens with this message in it: > > ;; This buffer is for notes you don't want to save, and for > ;; Lisp evaluation. If you want to create a file, visit that > ;; file with C-x C-f, then enter the text in that file's own > ;; buffer. Yes, and this makes absolutely clear what to expect from the *scratch* buffer -- in fact, for content you actually want to keep you will have to delete this text first, so don't whine when you ignored it. > But users don't read stuff, we all know that (heck, I'm a user > who's also a programmer, and I still don't read stuff). Yeah, there is much truth in that, and I often fail to read stuff my self -- but if something goes wrong I don't blame others for my fault. Especially if the text in question is so short, clear and easy to notice as this comments in the *scratch* buffer. > I think > of that notice as a workaround to a real solution: offering to > save what the user has typed. No "real solution" needed, as *scratch* does exactly what it is intended to, and it states it's intention loud and clearly. Please leave *scratch* alone. cheers sascha -- "Anyone who slaps a 'this page is best viewed with Browser X' label on a Web page appears to be yearning for the bad old days, before the Web, when you had very little chance of reading a document written on another computer, another word processor, or another network." -- Tim Berners-Lee, July 1996