From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?utf-8?Q?Gerd_M=C3=B6llmann?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: MPS experiment successful Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2024 18:29:53 +0200 Message-ID: References: <86le5cgmp3.fsf@gnu.org> <86bk68gfab.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="32946"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Apr 17 18:30:42 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1rx8BE-0008Lt-RU for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 17 Apr 2024 18:30:40 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rx8Ab-0003gJ-N5; Wed, 17 Apr 2024 12:30:02 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rx8AZ-0003fc-Tc for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 17 Apr 2024 12:29:59 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-wr1-x433.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::433]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rx8AX-0004xL-7N; Wed, 17 Apr 2024 12:29:59 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-wr1-x433.google.com with SMTP id ffacd0b85a97d-343f1957ffcso708194f8f.0; Wed, 17 Apr 2024 09:29:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1713371395; x=1713976195; darn=gnu.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date :references:in-reply-to:subject:cc:to:from:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=KgWwULyqyOzAGot+r+AYuWFE6htJfhpUQOyHwXcHqCs=; b=GN+IZt61cVnWgr+CCDrg0tasIks8ATmO6ehyqWUdtMEoHrKc4S/6wr3rlh4gCVtele 1DjAINwHFUSWp1FXH3bLwF2yEGGScHgWEiqRfKUvl6ijAsGPjckFpIiu73k0xVJEiQz/ cHAAwo/NyKcZjLStFk9mKNY+kn9fe6G6p4NjsQpjJr4zXZt+/bDCopQ4Lf3Mri3KfwyF skwLjFQ8nuY6yfArSdh6t9abOIylL8WLh7B/WxxNsklNmM2476i8d1LxK/KBNM6wMv9V ImgbKSUsA3f2GPe+mGZT86PleM7/0DxYHghyGQL8N7PchA1/6AjP5WYILODio2vGudRQ tRzw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1713371395; x=1713976195; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date :references:in-reply-to:subject:cc:to:from:x-gm-message-state:from :to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=KgWwULyqyOzAGot+r+AYuWFE6htJfhpUQOyHwXcHqCs=; b=kFO3/jKjsBemMPXXKHZRx84XWzoQ+ccmP5bvBDXILgdCRlHvaD0UefXAZudFsQItkl N8NsuWFdTsBueyT9/BMhxkHbqsgLbq3ISCIZGU3Y5tzqdnD4AIVlUhetaE+3Llh0Z8/z XaCCqv+ho/AVzFDWDWLdG7LxN2Vq5thcD4pI/fEJE2bIFgUWvIyfxjuqRdUI3MXcfGge n6OSG7xfnCvfUtdROCFqwTRNN0Q2ynkjjxdyyNJdU1eeaxKb6SE6oZoq7N05Rngrbo3U NVxrig6YyYyV8AB6vvsqidZCA6+nW5syF7id3lMt9Z/2/ODq7htjec7xUeLVHJ+gObMS Tc9A== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzGz8y3KslJdLAzWcUR26XuYNa0wzFD2FfmPxBxq4C0Cp50UUTB 0pZTLcymO8xCNaI5xEW7R4jXL59i4OVUX4bgbkKgcOwL/ojwW+xZ2x9PGOq6 X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IE6tUsCMd0DttjLIUM8uScxNDg7WiFUMJwfCXelVAhl/J65oBRc7/dcX0hcvgTwQzs4pE0ZOg== X-Received: by 2002:a5d:4945:0:b0:343:39a6:93bc with SMTP id r5-20020a5d4945000000b0034339a693bcmr5581724wrs.11.1713371394323; Wed, 17 Apr 2024 09:29:54 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from Pro.fritz.box (pd9e3638b.dip0.t-ipconnect.de. [217.227.99.139]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id e15-20020adfef0f000000b00349bf6bf2c8sm1952493wro.28.2024.04.17.09.29.53 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Wed, 17 Apr 2024 09:29:53 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <86bk68gfab.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Wed, 17 Apr 2024 18:49:48 +0300") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::433; envelope-from=gerd.moellmann@gmail.com; helo=mail-wr1-x433.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:317779 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: Gerd M=C3=B6llmann >> Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org >> Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2024 16:30:42 +0200 >> >> Eli Zaretskii writes: >> >> >> That's all. There is nothing more. And I'm currently undecided how to >> >> proceed with this. >> > >> > The next step would be to push a feature branch into the Emacs Git >> > repository and let people try the branch on the other supported >> > platforms. If the code is not yet mature enough for that, please >> > suggest how to get from here to there. >> >> I think technically it could be done, but there are some things that >> would need to be done. From the top of my head: >> >> - CL packages vs. obarrays (I do have packages but no obarrays) >> - Handling of pure space >> - Handling the new JSON stuff, which I don't have in my branch, I think. >> - ... > > The packages code will need to be moved aside, yes. But for the rest, > why shouldn't a simple merge do the job? They seem to be orthogonal, > by and large. Could be, one has to try. Obarrays could of course be added. > What is the issue with handling pure space? I would have to investigate how pure space works, and how to handle it with MPS. Noting that is impossible in principle, I think. >> Will increase memory usage in its current state, part of which could be >> optimized. > > How much larger is the memory footprint? I don't have numbers, but what I can say is that, ATM, every object is 1 word larger, including conses. I did that to siimplify things, and it could be changed in principle. I think it described in the Org file I sent. >> Some configurations/platform might not be possible to support. > > Which ones? MPS must be supported on a platform, of course. MPS' INSTALL file says Platforms ......... The MPS uses a six-character platform code to express a combination of operating system, CPU architecture, and compiler toolchain. Each six-character code breaks down into three pairs of characters, like this:: OSARCT Where ``OS`` denotes the operating system, ``AR`` the CPU architecture, and ``CT`` the compiler toolchain. Here are the platforms that we have regular access to and on which the MPS works well: =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Platform OS Architecture Compiler Makefile =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ``fri3gc`` FreeBSD IA-32 GCC ``fri3gc.gmk`` ``fri3ll`` FreeBSD IA-32 Clang ``fri3ll.gmk`` ``fri6gc`` FreeBSD x86-64 GCC ``fri6gc.gmk`` ``fri6ll`` FreeBSD x86-64 Clang ``fri6ll.gmk`` ``lia6gc`` Linux ARM64 GCC ``lia6gc.gmk`` ``lia6ll`` Linux ARM64 Clang ``lia6ll.gmk`` ``lii3gc`` Linux IA-32 GCC ``lii3gc.gmk`` ``lii6gc`` Linux x86-64 GCC ``lii6gc.gmk`` ``lii6ll`` Linux x86-64 Clang ``lii6ll.gmk`` ``w3i3mv`` Windows IA-32 Microsoft C ``w3i3mv.nmk`` ``w3i6mv`` Windows x86-64 Microsoft C ``w3i6mv.nmk`` ``xca6ll`` macOS ARM64 Clang ``mps.xcodeproj`` ``xci6ll`` macOS x86-64 Clang ``mps.xcodeproj`` =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Historically, the MPS worked on a much wider variety of platforms, and still could: IRIX, OSF/1 (Tru64), Solaris, SunOS, Classic Mac OS; MIPS, PowerPC, ALPHA, SPARC v8, SPARC v9; Metrowerks Codewarrior, SunPro C, Digital C, EGCS, Pelles C. If you are interested in support on any of these platforms or any new platforms, please contact Ravenbrook at `mps-questions@ravenbrook.com `_. As far as Emacs is is concerned, I don't have a clear picture what all is currently supported in which combinations. For example, wasn't there something that made Lisp_Object twice as large as a word? Not sure, but I think that would make things more difficult. I'm also currently supporting USE_LSB_TAG only. Could maybe be supported, but unless someone tries... And so on.