From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: John Wiegley Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs on OS X development Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 18:12:29 -0500 Organization: New Artisans LLC Message-ID: References: <87r4s68rr4.fsf@lifelogs.com> <83A41E83-79C8-4490-966B-CD224041E840@gmail.com> <83629ez18l.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1343085162 23872 80.91.229.3 (23 Jul 2012 23:12:42 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 23:12:42 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jul 24 01:12:42 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1StRnp-0002er-Vj for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 24 Jul 2012 01:12:38 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:45750 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1StRnp-0007Rl-3e for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 23 Jul 2012 19:12:37 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:46870) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1StRnl-0007RV-KJ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 23 Jul 2012 19:12:34 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1StRnk-00055O-E1 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 23 Jul 2012 19:12:33 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-yx0-f169.google.com ([209.85.213.169]:34556) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1StRnk-00054N-92 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 23 Jul 2012 19:12:32 -0400 Original-Received: by yenr5 with SMTP id r5so7182502yen.0 for ; Mon, 23 Jul 2012 16:12:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=sender:from:to:subject:organization:references:mail-followup-to :date:in-reply-to:message-id:user-agent:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=Y64aRhuJt92WUzotuShKTf+TZvpDK2e3SVvKekTW6rM=; b=ilkNX01uWGYXKfraYtWNunyCFFWf7Dj9nrTL9unWC4R2lyfUacHROUTKkjxKUxCbEk lWORRD3PTOVAWfNo0XubxTA8Kfxk2SOL4Lq2mtoKQRpGETYF7viogffnJkVGhtLLuPNu dhRBVDUg+fk161SM6HsQArcOXInS2liWQRhmOdeWuK/CJmr4FFHRMR+DGfC2pyQjpBJ3 KPpJHOnjo4bBXSPYHwcWjr9xcM5F/FvvT3MXA6JS7k1vz7ovbEkjPkA56lt9MTWnM/sh wxKUW/CVI75k4wPnUkx5xVByqZyunwU+dZ1ZyWoIlHJldvzJFRdofNchBwvepoB5etjB avrA== Original-Received: by 10.42.18.8 with SMTP id v8mr10032540ica.34.1343085151422; Mon, 23 Jul 2012 16:12:31 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from vulcan.local (c-98-215-105-167.hsd1.il.comcast.net. [98.215.105.167]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ch4sm551667igb.2.2012.07.23.16.12.30 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 23 Jul 2012 16:12:30 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by vulcan.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 57B4BF42D8EC; Mon, 23 Jul 2012 18:12:29 -0500 (CDT) Mail-Followup-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org In-Reply-To: <83629ez18l.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Mon, 23 Jul 2012 23:11:38 +0300") User-Agent: Gnus/5.130006 (Ma Gnus v0.6) Emacs/24.1 (darwin) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 209.85.213.169 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:151832 Archived-At: >>>>> Eli Zaretskii writes: >> Waiting until NS finds its star developer does not seem like a real stra= tegy >> to me > Then don't wait. Sit down and start hacking. You will get a lot of supp= ort > from everyone here, as soon as you start asking technical questions and s= eek > advice how to attack specific problems. I'm not a GUI developer, and don't plan on becoming one simply to fix my editor. >> Simply because non-OS X users don't seem to care what happens on OS X, >> doesn't mean it should be this easy to ignore the problem. It hasn't "g= one >> away" in a few years now, and I don't see why that's suddenly going to >> change now. > This line of argument won't get you anywhere, believe me. Been there done > that -- I waited for 6 years for Someone=E2=84=A2 to come and incorporate= the bidi > reordering engine into Emacs redisplay, which I wrote and debugged back in > 2002, but finally had to do it myself. If I hadn't, Emacs would still li= ve > in unidirectional world today. You probably know that I contribute to Emacs on a regular basis, mostly in = the Lisp areas. The reason I'm complaining here about this, rather than doing something more constructive, is that the problem lies far outside my area of knowledge. Plus, another developer, Yamamoto, *has* my solution. I've been using it f= or over a year now, and I'm happy with the way he has solved my issues for the release versions of Emacs. So, I'm arguing for inclusion of his work, not = for you to fix something for me. If we can get NS fixed, great; if we can get Mac-port merged, great; either path would allow me to become an active contributor gain to development on trunk. >> When in a scratch buffer, if I enable flyspell-mode, I can type fast eno= ugh >> that Emacs can't insert the characters as quickly as I can type. >>=20 >> It's this last problem that makes the NS port entirely unusable to me. > Then attack this one first. > For starters, flyspell.el is not supposed to do anything until it sees th= at > you completed a word. So as long as you type letters with no whitespace = or > punctuation, the slowdown should be minimal to non-existent, and the > external speller program is not involved. Do you still see significant > slowdown while typing a single long word? Or does it get slow only as so= on > as a word is completed and flyspell starts talking to the speller? Ok, these are great questions. First off, I pulled the -g -O0 thing from my 'emacs-build' script, which I've been using to build trunk lately. The same problem happens if I use -O3, with no other flags. Also, for the -O3 build= , I only use the --with-ns flag, nothing else. I'm rebuilding my trunk version now, and will do some more tests. I'll be back when I have some more concrete results. John