From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "John Wiegley" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: IDE Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 13:06:22 -0700 Organization: New Artisans LLC Message-ID: References: <83bnc7tavr.fsf@gnu.org> <5618C92A.3040207@yandex.ru> <83a8rrt9ag.fsf@gnu.org> <5618D376.1080700@yandex.ru> <831td3t62e.fsf@gnu.org> <5618E51D.4070800@yandex.ru> <83twpzrp05.fsf@gnu.org> <5618ED93.8000001@yandex.ru> <83lhbbrnn7.fsf@gnu.org> <56191EBE.5050404@yandex.ru> <83612essaw.fsf@gnu.org> <877fmuix68.fsf@isaac.fritz.box> <8337xispn2.fsf@gnu.org> <56195055.6010409@gmx.at> <56198BC3.2080402@siege-engine.com> <561B9F54.4070108@siege-engine.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1444681682 5915 80.91.229.3 (12 Oct 2015 20:28:02 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 20:28:02 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Oct 12 22:28:01 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZljhQ-0003t1-LK for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 12 Oct 2015 22:28:00 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:58642 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZljhQ-0006NJ-7P for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 12 Oct 2015 16:28:00 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:55081) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZljMd-0007FQ-5T for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 12 Oct 2015 16:06:32 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZljMa-0002lV-A1 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 12 Oct 2015 16:06:31 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pa0-x233.google.com ([2607:f8b0:400e:c03::233]:35987) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZljMZ-0002lB-Rx for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 12 Oct 2015 16:06:27 -0400 Original-Received: by pacex6 with SMTP id ex6so8127548pac.3 for ; Mon, 12 Oct 2015 13:06:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=sender:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:date:organization:message-id :references:user-agent:mail-followup-to:mime-version:content-type; bh=Q2CVcpd3loYmEkxNkj7PrkRA5rdTXCNuatnjKaIt0IA=; b=D9GlU4wTEi58fkldn5dCEzUtjRLNDcL19J4Yx0/gMmdrP+9VqWKgZ5s3gpCZ7KxEal WCM8RwjGPuZn5l6hoPQ4jRK9kaQ0H7iyRbiODcfwW5BCH6KSYzlWYAGOHQU8/LaM8AtQ eg+LodOGlRu5/9fYHs3KJHQsvwduJrcnRh2kkh5HTOOID2dV86rrqTOGbtyQrvQYHC7B Pqokpg06EWSiq4hG+cxV9Fvg3uIS+Nm94fvNiXS+qp8Eh9D7Gbya0ZycWii4MCnicFVQ LuY2upcPBkMyxxA6IHeQ9v3Nc4ZHu7lRuliHs5099JlhX3JmGniXcbUi7pFiYdSNHjC4 4SAg== X-Received: by 10.68.178.131 with SMTP id cy3mr35693871pbc.52.1444680387023; Mon, 12 Oct 2015 13:06:27 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from Vulcan.local (76-234-68-79.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net. [76.234.68.79]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id vm6sm19923499pbc.8.2015.10.12.13.06.25 for (version=TLS1 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 12 Oct 2015 13:06:25 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by Vulcan.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id E3DC0F2C08BA; Mon, 12 Oct 2015 13:06:24 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <561B9F54.4070108@siege-engine.com> (Eric Ludlam's message of "Mon, 12 Oct 2015 07:53:56 -0400") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.5 (darwin) Mail-Followup-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:400e:c03::233 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:191397 Archived-At: >>>>> Eric Ludlam writes: >> From what I know about CEDET to date, it is much more complex than this >> objective. > That is because the task is complex. The task is, but the solution needn't be, if structured well. I'm not willing right now to say "CEDET is the answer", mostly because I've had bad experiences trying to use it over the years. I want to return to basics, define what is wanted, and then ask what layers are needed to get there. > The primary difference between your list and CEDET is that those other tools > focus on picking up a current symbol, or perhaps a substring, and it is up > to the next layer to figure out more about it. I agree that that could be > simplified across the variosu tools, but AFAIK the 'thing-at-pt' stuff is > that common interface. IDEs know more about the buffer than just some symbol > and the major-mode of the current buffer. thing-at-pt is likely a piece of the puzzle, but a small piece. > If you want a stronger set of smart behaviours at point, you will need to > raise your standard to include more derived data. Correct. I'll compile a more in-depth proposal for this idea, within the context of a larger plan for IDE functionality -- if it falls to me to do so. John