Moving an item to a precise place

Moving an item to a precise place

[Xavier Maillard]

Hi,

Dunno if it is a FAQ, I did not find anything.

So let's say I have this organization:

* Project 1
** TODO Ask foo about bar

* Project 2
** TODO Write customer report

* Project 3

How can I move the TODO from "Project 1" to "Project 3" directly
-i.e. move by "name"

I know there is org-move-item-(down/up) and subtree but I did not
see anything to tell an item to move a precise place (where the
precise place will be prompted).

Does it exist ?

Regards,
	Xavier
-- 
http://www.gnu.org
http://www.april.org
http://www.lolica.org

Re: Moving an item to a precise place

[Bastien]

Xavier Maillard <xma@gnu.org> writes:

> So let's say I have this organization:
>
> * Project 1
> ** TODO Ask foo about bar
>
> * Project 2
> ** TODO Write customer report
>
> * Project 3
>
> How can I move the TODO from "Project 1" to "Project 3" directly
> -i.e. move by "name"

What about this?

1. Put the cursor at the beginning of the TODO you want to move
2. C-c C-x C-w to cut the subtree (leave the point on "Project 2")
3. C-c C-f to go to the next heading (same level)
4. C-n to go to the next line
5. C-y to yank the subtree

You can also use org-goto (C-c C-j) to navigate through the structure
easily if you need to paste the cut subtree far in the file.

> I know there is org-move-item-(down/up) and subtree but I did not see
> anything to tell an item to move a precise place (where the precise
> place will be prompted).

I think it's better to rely on usual kill/yank procedures when the moves
are not hierarchy-dependant.

--
Bastien

Re: Moving an item to a precise place

[Carsten Dominik]

On Sep 16, 2007, at 14:40, Bastien wrote:

> Xavier Maillard <xma@gnu.org> writes:
>
>> So let's say I have this organization:
>>
>> * Project 1
>> ** TODO Ask foo about bar
>>
>> * Project 2
>> ** TODO Write customer report
>>
>> * Project 3
>>
>> How can I move the TODO from "Project 1" to "Project 3" directly
>> -i.e. move by "name"
>
> What about this?
>
> 1. Put the cursor at the beginning of the TODO you want to move
> 2. C-c C-x C-w to cut the subtree (leave the point on "Project 2")
> 3. C-c C-f to go to the next heading (same level)
> 4. C-n to go to the next line
> 5. C-y to yank the subtree
>
> You can also use org-goto (C-c C-j) to navigate through the structure
> easily if you need to paste the cut subtree far in the file.
>
>> I know there is org-move-item-(down/up) and subtree but I did not see
>> anything to tell an item to move a precise place (where the precise
>> place will be prompted).
>
> I think it's better to rely on usual kill/yank procedures when the 
> moves
> are not hierarchy-dependant.

A really stupid solution is also to promote the entry to
top level with M-left, then to move it down with M-down,
then to demote it again with M-right.  For short distances
this requires the lease amount of thinking.....

- Carsten

Re: Moving an item to a precise place

[John Rakestraw]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 906 bytes --]


> A really stupid solution is also to promote the entry to
> top level with M-left, then to move it down with M-down,
> then to demote it again with M-right.  For short distances
> this requires the lease amount of thinking.....

I found this "stupid solution" appealing (not sure what this says about
me ;), but learned that in my set-up "M-up" performs the same action as 
"M-S-<up>" -- i.e, it moves an entire tree rather than just a heading.

So I have this --

* Heading 1
** Subheading 1

* Heading 2
** Subheading 1a
** Subheading 2a

If I put point on **Subheading 1a and do M-left, I have this:

* Heading 1
** Subheading 1

* Heading 2
* Subheading 1a
** Subheading 2a

If I then have point on * Subheading 1a and do M-up, I get this:

* Heading 1
** Subheading 1
* Subheading 1a
** Subheading 2a

* Heading 2

Emacs 22.1.1
Org 5.09

-- 
John Rakestraw

[-- Attachment #1.2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 189 bytes --]

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 204 bytes --]

_______________________________________________
Emacs-orgmode mailing list
Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode

Re: Moving an item to a precise place

[Carsten Dominik]

On Sep 19, 2007, at 18:26, John Rakestraw wrote:

>
>> A really stupid solution is also to promote the entry to
>> top level with M-left, then to move it down with M-down,
>> then to demote it again with M-right.  For short distances
>> this requires the lease amount of thinking.....
>
> I found this "stupid solution" appealing (not sure what this says about
> me ;), but learned that in my set-up "M-up" performs the same action as
> "M-S-<up>" -- i.e, it moves an entire tree rather than just a heading.

Of course, you are right, it is more complicated than this.  You would
need do switch between moving and demoting to get it up as a single
top-level entry.  Makes it a lot less useful.

- Carsten



--
Carsten Dominik
Sterrenkundig Instituut "Anton Pannekoek"
Universiteit van Amsterdam
Kruislaan 403
NL-1098SJ Amsterdam
phone: +31 20 525 7477

emacs on the N800

[Daniel M German]

hi everybody,

Some of you might be interested...

I was able to cross-compile emacs-nox for the N800 (emacs22.1) and run
org mode on it. YOu can check the screenshots here:

http://turingmachine.org/~dmg/temp/emacsOrgN800.jpg
http://turingmachine.org/~dmg/temp/emacsOrgN800full.jpg

(The screenshots were made running vncX11 on the nokia and connecting to
it from my desktop). The first shows the stylus virtual keyboard, and
the second the full screen. Depending on your eyes, you can zoom out
to view up to 100 lines of text and still read it.

I am not saying that running org from the N800 is a good idea, but it
might be useful to have it. Also, remember that you can run subversion
on it, so you can always synchronize (both ways) your org files. Given
that it uses 802.11 you synchronize it without taking it out of your
pocket. 

And you can run remember too, which is more useful to me than any of
the node taking apps for the nokia.

From my preliminary evaluation it seems to work well with some
caveats:

* dired does not work. It reports "Listing directory failed but
  'access-file''' worked. 
* File completion works, though
* It has no support for X which means no support for the stylus as a
  pointer.

Now, when used inside X-terminal, using the stylus:

* It is surprisingly useful. If you bind some of the x-terminal
  shortcuts to Ctrl-, Ctrl-X, Ctrl-C, <PageUp>, <PageDown> it it makes
  life easier. It certainly beats any other text editor I have loaded
  in the n800 (ok, I haven't loaded vim :)

* Xterminal has a bug and does not send ctrl-numbers, nor ctrl-special
  characters. That means you have to rebind things like undo.

* The left keys of the nokia work as a Esc (meta), Up, Down, Left,
  Right.


When used with a keyboard it works as you would expect it. The same
applies if you ssh to the n800.





Unfortunately I have no knowledge on how to create packages for others
to download, once I find out, I'll post it.




--
Daniel M. German                  
http://turingmachine.org/
http://silvernegative.com/
dmg (at) uvic (dot) ca
replace (at) with @ and (dot) with .

Re: emacs on the N800

[Cezar]

Daniel M German <dmg@uvic.ca> writes:

> hi everybody,
>
> Some of you might be interested...
>

You bet ! :D

I don't know if this can run on my phone but I'd be glad to know your
thoughts, I have a HTC TYTN II:

http://www.htc.com/product/03-product_tytn_II.htm

I would LOVE to run Emacs and org-mode on it. Any help is gladly
welcome.

Best regards,
Cezar

Re: Re: emacs on the N800

[Daniel M German]

 Cezar> Daniel M German <dmg@uvic.ca> writes:
 >> hi everybody,
 >> 
 >> Some of you might be interested...
 >> 

 Cezar> You bet ! :D

 Cezar> I don't know if this can run on my phone but I'd be glad to know your
 Cezar> thoughts, I have a HTC TYTN II:

 Cezar> http://www.htc.com/product/03-product_tytn_II.htm

No idea.

What makes the N800 special is that it runs linux, hence it is
relatively easy to port applications to it. That is why compiling
emacs for it was so easy.

I doubt  you can do the same with a Windows-type phone.


By the way, the Nokia N800  is not a telephone, and its screen is huge
in comparison to yours (it is 800x480).

--dmg



 Cezar> I would LOVE to run Emacs and org-mode on it. Any help is gladly
 Cezar> welcome.

 Cezar> Best regards,
 Cezar> Cezar



 Cezar> _______________________________________________
 Cezar> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
 Cezar> Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
 Cezar> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
 Cezar> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode


-- 
--
Daniel M. German                  
http://turingmachine.org/
http://silvernegative.com/
dmg (at) uvic (dot) ca
replace (at) with @ and (dot) with .

Re: emacs on the N800

[Michael Olson]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 690 bytes --]

Daniel M German <dmg@uvic.ca> writes:

> hi everybody,
>
> Some of you might be interested...
>
> I was able to cross-compile emacs-nox for the N800 (emacs22.1) and run
> org mode on it. YOu can check the screenshots here:
>
> http://turingmachine.org/~dmg/temp/emacsOrgN800.jpg
> http://turingmachine.org/~dmg/temp/emacsOrgN800full.jpg

That looks really cool.  I'd love to see Emacs take off on handheld
devices.

-- 
       Michael Olson -- FSF Associate Member #652     |
 http://mwolson.org/ -- Jabber: mwolson_at_hcoop.net  |  /` |\ | | |
            Sysadmin -- Hobbies: Lisp, GP2X, HCoop    | |_] | \| |_|
Projects: Emacs, Muse, ERC, EMMS, ErBot, DVC, Planner |

[-- Attachment #1.2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 188 bytes --]

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 204 bytes --]

_______________________________________________
Emacs-orgmode mailing list
Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode

Re: Moving an item to a precise place

[Max Mikhanosha]

Hi Xavier,

At Sun, 16 Sep 2007 03:00:10 +0200,
Xavier Maillard wrote:
> 
> So let's say I have this organization:
> 
> * Project 1
> ** TODO Ask foo about bar
> 
> * Project 2
> ** TODO Write customer report
> 
> * Project 3
> 
> How can I move the TODO from "Project 1" to "Project 3" directly
> -i.e. move by "name"

I'm catching up on reading my mailing lists, therefore you may have
already found a different way to do it, but just in case below is what
I wrote for myself for same functionality that you asked for.

Regards,
  Max

;;; Below code provides a function M-x org-quicky-refile which cuts a
;;; heading, then scans the file for the names of top level headings,
;;; and asks for the heading name to paste the item into (with
;;; standard Emacs completion)
;;;
;;; Simply bind org-quicky-refile to a key in org-mode-map.
;;;
;;; Bugs: leaves empty line sometimes, but this is a bug in
;;  org-paste-subtree IMHO.
;;;
;;; Possible improvements: only collect headings with specific tags
;;; as targets, so that one can tag 3rd/4th level headings as target

(defun org-quicky-get-heading (&optional no-props)
  (if (looking-at "^\\*+[ \t]+\\([^\r\n]*?\\)[ \t]*\\(:[a-zA-Z0-9:_@]+\\)?[ \t]*[\r\n]")	
      (if no-props (org-match-string-no-properties 1) 
        (match-string 1)) ""))

(defun org-quicky-get-toplevel-headings ()
  "Return a list of top level headings"
  (let (headings) 
    (save-excursion
      (goto-char (point-min))
      (while (not (eobp))
        (when (and (looking-at outline-regexp)
                   (= (org-outline-level) 1))
          (push (cons (org-quicky-get-heading t) (point-marker)) headings))
        (forward-line)))
    (nreverse headings)))

(defmacro when* (expr &rest body)
  `(let ((it ,expr))
     (when it
       ,@body)))

(defvar org-quicky-refile-history nil)

(defun org-quicky-refile (&optional arg)
  (interactive)
  (let* ((headings (org-quicky-get-toplevel-headings))
         (completion-ignore-case t)
         pos)
    (when* (completing-read 
            "Project: " (mapcar #'car headings)
            nil t nil 'org-quicky-refile-history)
           (setq pos (cdr (assoc it headings)))
           (org-cut-special)
           (save-excursion 
             (goto-char pos)
             (setq pos (or (save-excursion 
                             (outline-get-next-sibling))
                           (point-max)))
             (goto-char pos)
             (org-paste-subtree 2)))))

Re: Moving an item to a precise place

[Carsten Dominik]

On Oct 2, 2007, at 14:33, Max Mikhanosha wrote:
> ;;;
> ;;; Bugs: leaves empty line sometimes, but this is a bug in
> ;;  org-paste-subtree IMHO.

The cut-and-paste operations consider whitespace to be part
of an item. So if you cut a tree that ends with whitespace,
that whitespace will be pasted back along with the tree.
If you get extra whitespace at paste even though you did
cut an entry without extra whitespace, I'd like to know about
it and see an example.

Thanks.

- Carsten

Re: emacs on the N800

[Adam Spiers]

Hi Daniel,

On Thu, Sep 27, 2007 at 12:51:01PM +0200, Daniel M German wrote:
> hi everybody,
> 
> Some of you might be interested...
> 
> I was able to cross-compile emacs-nox for the N800 (emacs22.1) and run
> org mode on it. YOu can check the screenshots here:
> 
> http://turingmachine.org/~dmg/temp/emacsOrgN800.jpg
> http://turingmachine.org/~dmg/temp/emacsOrgN800full.jpg
> 
> (The screenshots were made running vncX11 on the nokia and connecting to
                                     ^^^^^^
Did you mean x11vnc?  This isn't available in any of the OS2007
repositories yet :-/

> it from my desktop). The first shows the stylus virtual keyboard, and
> the second the full screen. Depending on your eyes, you can zoom out
> to view up to 100 lines of text and still read it.

Today I became the very proud owner of a shiny new N810.  This thing
rocks!  It's the slickest Linux-powered unified gizmo I have ever
seen.  It didn't take long to get set it up so I could ssh in as root
and do operations with apt-get.  Python is already running nicely ;-)

However, the main reason for buying it was to try to get an
ultra-portable version of org-mode, so I'd be *really* grateful if you
could guide me through how you cross-compiled it for the N800.  Then
I'll try the same on the N810 and maybe even publish a package
repository with it in.  *Any* help would be much appreciated.

Thanks,
Adam

Re: emacs on the N800

[Adam Spiers]

On Tue, Dec 11, 2007 at 11:47:14PM +0000, Adam Spiers wrote:
> Did you mean x11vnc?  This isn't available in any of the OS2007
                                                           ^^^^^^
> repositories yet :-/

I meant OS2008 ...

Re: emacs on the N800

[Daniel M German]

                                     ^^^^^^
 Adam> Did you mean x11vnc?  This isn't available in any of the OS2007
 Adam> repositories yet :-/

 >> it from my desktop). The first shows the stylus virtual keyboard, and
 >> the second the full screen. Depending on your eyes, you can zoom out
 >> to view up to 100 lines of text and still read it.

 Adam> Today I became the very proud owner of a shiny new N810.  This thing
 Adam> rocks!  It's the slickest Linux-powered unified gizmo I have ever
 Adam> seen.  It didn't take long to get set it up so I could ssh in as root
 Adam> and do operations with apt-get.  Python is already running nicely ;-)

 Adam> However, the main reason for buying it was to try to get an
 Adam> ultra-portable version of org-mode, so I'd be *really* grateful if you
 Adam> could guide me through how you cross-compiled it for the N800.  Then
 Adam> I'll try the same on the N810 and maybe even publish a package
 Adam> repository with it in.  *Any* help would be much appreciated.

Check maemo.org (look for SDK). You need a linux computer (preferable
running debian). You have to download around 0.5 gigs of packages but
it is relatively straightforward. There is a good tutorial on how to
do it.

Now that the N810 has a physical keyboard more people will be inclined
to run emacs on it. I personally run it only for remember and when
connecting remotely into it. 

On the other hand I have read that emacs23 has support for this type
of devices, but I have not compiled it yet.

The 2008 apps are still being few and scarce. For that reason I have
set up a dual boot in my N800.

One more issue. You won't have space in the internal memory to install
it. You need to format a card using ext2, and then mount it (internal
or external) and symlink to it. Alternatively you can install the OS
in an external card and boot into it (my preferred choice).


--dmg

 Adam> Thanks,
 Adam> Adam




-- 
--
Daniel M. German                  
http://turingmachine.org/
http://silvernegative.com/
dmg (at) uvic (dot) ca
replace (at) with @ and (dot) with .

Re: emacs on the N800

[Adam Spiers]

On Wed, Dec 12, 2007 at 08:33:18AM -0800, Daniel M German wrote:
>                                      ^^^^^^
>  Adam> Did you mean x11vnc?  This isn't available in any of the OS2007
>  Adam> repositories yet :-/
> 
>  >> it from my desktop). The first shows the stylus virtual keyboard, and
>  >> the second the full screen. Depending on your eyes, you can zoom out
>  >> to view up to 100 lines of text and still read it.
> 
>  Adam> Today I became the very proud owner of a shiny new N810.  This thing
>  Adam> rocks!  It's the slickest Linux-powered unified gizmo I have ever
>  Adam> seen.  It didn't take long to get set it up so I could ssh in as root
>  Adam> and do operations with apt-get.  Python is already running nicely ;-)
> 
>  Adam> However, the main reason for buying it was to try to get an
>  Adam> ultra-portable version of org-mode, so I'd be *really* grateful if you
>  Adam> could guide me through how you cross-compiled it for the N800.  Then
>  Adam> I'll try the same on the N810 and maybe even publish a package
>  Adam> repository with it in.  *Any* help would be much appreciated.
> 
> Check maemo.org (look for SDK). You need a linux computer (preferable
> running debian). You have to download around 0.5 gigs of packages but
> it is relatively straightforward. There is a good tutorial on how to
> do it.

Yes, I found that and set off a torrent download of the Chinook VMware
scratchbox environment last night.  It had finished this morning but I
can't find where it put it :-/

> Now that the N810 has a physical keyboard more people will be inclined
> to run emacs on it. I personally run it only for remember and when
> connecting remotely into it. 

My main goal is to be able to do regular reviews (reprioritization,
scheduling etc.) when roaming.  Hopefully org-mouse.el will help with
that.

> On the other hand I have read that emacs23 has support for this type
> of devices, but I have not compiled it yet.

Interesting!  Do you have any more details on the kind of extra support?

> The 2008 apps are still being few and scarce. For that reason I have
> set up a dual boot in my N800.

That sounds clever.  I have yet to find good docs explaining how the
mounting scheme works with the internal flash memory.

> One more issue. You won't have space in the internal memory to install
> it. You need to format a card using ext2, and then mount it (internal
> or external) and symlink to it.

The N810 only has one external slot, but it does have a built-in 2GB
card.  I'd be pretty worried if emacs couldn't fit in that!  But I
don't know how to install to it rather than the internal memory.

> Alternatively you can install the OS in an external card and boot
> into it (my preferred choice).

Again, would be very interested to know how this works.

Re: emacs on the N800

[Adam Spiers]

On Wed, Dec 12, 2007 at 08:55:37AM -0800, Daniel M German wrote:
> I am moving this back to org, since I suspect they will be interested people.

Good idea.

>  Bastien> Hhmm... yes, this is what I expected.  Daniel, is the physical keyboard
>  Bastien> something that you miss?  How are you dealing with Emacs key chords?
> 
> I can't miss what I have never had ;) The stylus is ok with Ctrl
> sequences, they just need one extra tap. Unfortunately xterm is broken
> in OS2007 (control-_ is impossible) but I fixed it. In OS2008 it is
> difficult to issue Ctrl- commands (they require an extra tap). I might
> look into this once i fully move to 2008. So I guess that out of the
> box, a phyical keyboard might make a difference, if it supports
> <Ctrl>.

It does.  I haven't figured out how to get <Meta> or <Esc> on it yet,
but xmodmap is available so it should be possible.

> With respect to the virtual keyboard, it lacks <Ctrl>, <Alt> and
> <Meta>. But a physical key can provide ESC. This is the reason I run
> emacs inside an XTerm (emacs -nw). The Xterm can provide me a shortcut 
> to <ctrl>: I tap it, then next key I tap is read as <ctrl-key>. The
> disadvantage is that is no "mouse" support (the stylus can be used as
> a pointer).

Ah, drat :-( I didn't think of that.  Of course, org-mouse.el won't
work with emacs-nox.  But judging by your org-mode screenshot 

  http://turingmachine.org/~dmg/temp/emacsOrgN800full.jpg

you seem to know how to configure the xterm application to feed more
complex macros such as C-x.  How did you set this up and is it
documented anywhere?

> Now, OS2008 can work in host-mode (I have tested it myself). This
> means you can attach any external keyboard. Some people have luck with
> the apple bluetooth keyboard. I own a bluetooth IPaq keyboard (but I
> haven't been able to connect it to it under OS 2008). So when I really
> need to use emacs, I can always connect a real keyboard. Not ideal for
> standing up, but way more practical than a virtual keyboard when
> sitting.

Yes, I guess even one of those virtual laser keyboards would be
possible.

>  Bastien> Sorry to ask so insistently, but I *can't* test the N800
>  Bastien> until I make up my mind on this :( And chosing the N810
>  Bastien> instead means that I'll have to wait for another two
>  Bastien> weeks...
> 
> Well, it depends on how much money you are willing to spend. The N800
> is around 150-250 dollars cheaper than the N810. I personally don't
> see a reason to upgrade. But this is mainly because I always have a
> laptop with me.

Yep - most N800 users seem to agree it is a lot to ask for an upgrade,
but buying from scratch I think it's easier to justify.

>  Bastien> (There are many other factors.  For example, how many softwares are
>  Bastien> available for 0S2008, compared to 0S2007?  Is it worth waiting for 
>  Bastien> an AZERTY physical keyboard?  etc, etc...)
> 
> This is why I dual boot. Some applications I use regularly haven't
> made it to OS2008.

So it's not possible to install OS2007 libraries on OS2008?

> What we need is to compile emacs23 and see if works well with a
> physical and stylus keyboard.

Amen!  That sounds like a very interesting project.

Re: emacs on the N800

[Tim O'Callaghan]

>
> Now, OS2008 can work in host-mode (I have tested it myself). This
> means you can attach any external keyboard. Some people have luck with
> the apple bluetooth keyboard. I own a bluetooth IPaq keyboard (but I
> haven't been able to connect it to it under OS 2008). So when I really
> need to use emacs, I can always connect a real keyboard. Not ideal for
> standing up, but way more practical than a virtual keyboard when
> sitting.
>

AFAIK the Apple BT keyboard, is a standard BT HID device. I tested it
myself against my cell phone. I also tested that weird laser keyboard,
but it requires some setup-configuration to work properly and AFAIK
the config client is windows only. I have a thinkoutside BT HID
profile keyboard and it works fine with my n800. I even have a
nonstandard 'freedom' BT keyboard, but i saw that it can be added with
some mucking about in xmodmap i think.

A 'real' USB keyboard could be added, you need to flip the usb into
host mode - which can be done in debug mode. The problem is it needs
to be externally powered. The n800 does not have the USB power line
connected - probably because it was designed as a client device.

I would be interested in playing with emacs and org on an n800 as
well, but without a keyboard, i just don't see it being any use.

Tim.

Re: emacs on the N800

[Daniel M German]

Adam Spiers twisted the bytes to say:


 >> Now that the N810 has a physical keyboard more people will be inclined
 >> to run emacs on it. I personally run it only for remember and when
 >> connecting remotely into it. 

 Adam> My main goal is to be able to do regular reviews (reprioritization,
 Adam> scheduling etc.) when roaming.  Hopefully org-mouse.el will help with
 Adam> that.

In that case you need to compile it with X support. When I compiled
it, it was without it, so no stylus support.

 >> On the other hand I have read that emacs23 has support for this type
 >> of devices, but I have not compiled it yet.

 Adam> Interesting!  Do you have any more details on the kind of extra support?

No idea. Just one comment in the maemo users mailing list. But without
Ctrl- support in the virtual keyboard it will be difficult to
use. 

perhaps the solution for us (n800 users) is to hack the keyboard and
add ctrl.


 >> The 2008 apps are still being few and scarce. For that reason I have
 >> set up a dual boot in my N800.

 Adam> That sounds clever.  I have yet to find good docs explaining how the
 Adam> mounting scheme works with the internal flash memory.

 >> One more issue. You won't have space in the internal memory to install
 >> it. You need to format a card using ext2, and then mount it (internal
 >> or external) and symlink to it.

 Adam> The N810 only has one external slot, but it does have a built-in 2GB
 Adam> card.  I'd be pretty worried if emacs couldn't fit in that!  But I
 Adam> don't know how to install to it rather than the internal memory.

I am not sure how file system is distributed in the 810. in the 800
the internal memory is used for root, and /media/mmc2 is the internal
card.

 >> Alternatively you can install the OS in an external card and boot
 >> into it (my preferred choice).

 Adam> Again, would be very interested to know how this works.

http://turingmachine.org/~dmg/temp/local.tar.gz

Unpack in user home directory, then symlink /usr/local to it. It
contains emacs-nox. Make sure you rename the original /usr/local so
you don't lose it (I think it is empty out-of-the box). You need to
install ncurses-base and ncurses-term


--dmg


-- 
--
Daniel M. German                  
http://turingmachine.org/
http://silvernegative.com/
dmg (at) uvic (dot) ca
replace (at) with @ and (dot) with .

Re: emacs on the N800

[Daniel M German]

 Tim> AFAIK the Apple BT keyboard, is a standard BT HID device. I tested it
 Tim> myself against my cell phone. I also tested that weird laser keyboard,
 Tim> but it requires some setup-configuration to work properly and AFAIK
 Tim> the config client is windows only. I have a thinkoutside BT HID
 Tim> profile keyboard and it works fine with my n800. I even have a
 Tim> nonstandard 'freedom' BT keyboard, but i saw that it can be added with
 Tim> some mucking about in xmodmap i think.

 Tim> A 'real' USB keyboard could be added, you need to flip the usb into
 Tim> host mode - which can be done in debug mode. The problem is it needs
 Tim> to be externally powered. The n800 does not have the USB power line
 Tim> connected - probably because it was designed as a client device.

It depends on the keyboard. Some wired keyboards will work out of the
box. I personally use a logitech wireless keyboard (non-blue tooth). I
plug in the transceiver to the N800 and it works without any extra
power. The keyboard has its own batteries. Others have reported
success with small USB keyboards.

 Tim> I would be interested in playing with emacs and org on an n800 as
 Tim> well, but without a keyboard, i just don't see it being any use.

It is very useful for remember, even with the virtual keyboard, and to
browse files. It is better, IMO, than its own file editors.

 Tim> Tim.


-- 
--
Daniel M. German                  
http://turingmachine.org/
http://silvernegative.com/
dmg (at) uvic (dot) ca
replace (at) with @ and (dot) with .

Re: emacs on the N800

[Leo]

On 2007-12-12 16:33 +0000, Daniel M German wrote:
>                                      ^^^^^^
>  Adam> Did you mean x11vnc?  This isn't available in any of the OS2007
>  Adam> repositories yet :-/
>
>  >> it from my desktop). The first shows the stylus virtual keyboard, and
>  >> the second the full screen. Depending on your eyes, you can zoom out
>  >> to view up to 100 lines of text and still read it.
>
>  Adam> Today I became the very proud owner of a shiny new N810.  This thing
>  Adam> rocks!  It's the slickest Linux-powered unified gizmo I have ever
>  Adam> seen.  It didn't take long to get set it up so I could ssh in as root
>  Adam> and do operations with apt-get.  Python is already running nicely ;-)
>
>  Adam> However, the main reason for buying it was to try to get an
>  Adam> ultra-portable version of org-mode, so I'd be *really* grateful if you
>  Adam> could guide me through how you cross-compiled it for the N800.  Then
>  Adam> I'll try the same on the N810 and maybe even publish a package
>  Adam> repository with it in.  *Any* help would be much appreciated.
>
> Check maemo.org (look for SDK). You need a linux computer (preferable
> running debian). You have to download around 0.5 gigs of packages but
> it is relatively straightforward. There is a good tutorial on how to
> do it.
>
> Now that the N810 has a physical keyboard more people will be inclined
> to run emacs on it. I personally run it only for remember and when
> connecting remotely into it. 
>
> On the other hand I have read that emacs23 has support for this type
> of devices, but I have not compiled it yet.
>
> The 2008 apps are still being few and scarce. For that reason I have
> set up a dual boot in my N800.
>
> One more issue. You won't have space in the internal memory to install
> it. You need to format a card using ext2, and then mount it (internal
> or external) and symlink to it. Alternatively you can install the OS
> in an external card and boot into it (my preferred choice).

I am reading this thread with great interest as I am thinking of getting
a n810. But the price is a bit high at the moment.

-- 
.:  Leo  :.  [ sdl.web AT gmail.com ]  .:  [ GPG Key: 9283AA3F ]  :.

          Use the best OS -- http://www.fedoraproject.org/

Re: emacs on the N800

[Adam Spiers]

On Wed, Dec 12, 2007 at 09:43:18AM -0800, Daniel M German wrote:
> Adam Spiers twisted the bytes to say:
>  >> Now that the N810 has a physical keyboard more people will be inclined
>  >> to run emacs on it. I personally run it only for remember and when
>  >> connecting remotely into it. 
> 
>  Adam> My main goal is to be able to do regular reviews (reprioritization,
>  Adam> scheduling etc.) when roaming.  Hopefully org-mouse.el will help with
>  Adam> that.
> 
> In that case you need to compile it with X support. When I compiled
> it, it was without it, so no stylus support.

OK - I will try compiling with.

>  >> On the other hand I have read that emacs23 has support for this type
>  >> of devices, but I have not compiled it yet.
> 
>  Adam> Interesting!  Do you have any more details on the kind of extra support?
> 
> No idea. Just one comment in the maemo users mailing list.

Hmm, couldn't see it here:

   http://search.gmane.org/?query=emacs&group=gmane.comp.handhelds.maemo.user

Got a URL?

>  >> One more issue. You won't have space in the internal memory to install
>  >> it. You need to format a card using ext2, and then mount it (internal
>  >> or external) and symlink to it.
> 
>  Adam> The N810 only has one external slot, but it does have a built-in 2GB
>  Adam> card.  I'd be pretty worried if emacs couldn't fit in that!  But I
>  Adam> don't know how to install to it rather than the internal memory.
> 
> I am not sure how file system is distributed in the 810. in the 800
> the internal memory is used for root, and /media/mmc2 is the internal
> card.

It's the same on the N810.

>  >> Alternatively you can install the OS in an external card and boot
>  >> into it (my preferred choice).
> 
>  Adam> Again, would be very interested to know how this works.
> 
> http://turingmachine.org/~dmg/temp/local.tar.gz
> 
> Unpack in user home directory, then symlink /usr/local to it. It
> contains emacs-nox. Make sure you rename the original /usr/local so
> you don't lose it (I think it is empty out-of-the box). You need to
> install ncurses-base and ncurses-term

OK thanks!

Re: emacs on the N800

[Adam Spiers]

On Fri, Dec 14, 2007 at 08:00:08AM +0100, Bastien wrote:
> Thanks to both of you for your answers.
> 
> After spending way too much time browsing the internet for demo videos
> and people talking of the usefulness of the physical keyboard, I think 
> I will go for the N810 (requiring that I'm very patient and will send
> back the N800 currently laying unpacked on my desk...)

Ah, you already have the N800, I didn't realise that.  You must have a
lot of willpower to leave that unopened :-)

> The two things that made me hesitate:
> 
> - If the d-pad is on the physical keyboard, perhaps it means that you
>   often have to slide the keyboard out, even if you just need the d-pad?

That's true, but the only time I've actually missed this in the few
days since I've had it is when using the xterm, and for that I
configured tappable Left/Right/Up/Down shortcuts on the screen.  They
take up valuable shortcut space which could be used for less mundane
shortcuts.  But hopefully I can get emacs running in X11 mode so that
I can tap to navigate, and use org-mouse for editing - though this
will require some tweaks since obviously there are not 3 mouse
buttons.  According to a few google search results, tap-and-hold
apparently emulates a right-click but I don't know in which layer of
the stack this is implemented:

  https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1839
  https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2078
  http://live.gnome.org/GtkStylusMode

> - Apparently the top first row of keys (QWERTY) is a bit too close to
>   the screen part of the device.  Making it difficult to type with the
>   thumb, at least when you're not sitting.

I read this too, but I haven't found that at all so far, but then my
thumbs are on the average side of small.  My mine complaint with the
keyboard would be the lack of tactile separate between keys; however
people say that after a few days you get used to it and I haven't used
it that long yet.

> Unless Adam tells me that the physical keyboard is not as useful as he
> first thought (maybe for the reasons I mention here), I'll go for N810.

Entering text by tapping can be very frustrating in certain
situations, so I suspect I'd miss having the physical keyboard.  The
selection of the small tap keyboard for stylus and the large finger
keyboard seems to be quite hard to control - sometimes you get one,
sometimes the other.  In normal text fields it's not too bad, but in
the xterm app it's almost impossible to get a finger keyboard.
Software bug no doubt, but who knows how long it will take to be
fixed?  As I said before, the finger keyboard takes over the whole
screen so you lose all context during entry.  Also perhaps more
importantly, the stylus/finger keyboards make chords impossible,
e.g. there is no Control AFAICS.  The physical keyboard has the
following by default:

  Key          Event reported by xev
  ----------------------------------
  Fn           ISO_Level3_Shift
  Left Shift   Shift_L
  Right Shift  Shift_L :-(
  Chr          Multi_key
  Ctrl         Control_R
  Enter        KP_Enter
  d-pad centre Enter

Shame that Right Shift doesn't generate Shift_R - could have rebound
one of the shifts as Meta in that case.  Maybe this is tweakable at a
lower level rather than being hard-wired in the circuits though.

> Looking forward to installing Emacs 23 on it and share experience :)

Aye :-)

Re: emacs on the N800

[Daniel M German]

 >> Unless Adam tells me that the physical keyboard is not as useful as he
 >> first thought (maybe for the reasons I mention here), I'll go for N810.

 Adam> Entering text by tapping can be very frustrating in certain
 Adam> situations, so I suspect I'd miss having the physical keyboard.  The
 Adam> selection of the small tap keyboard for stylus and the large finger
 Adam> keyboard seems to be quite hard to control - sometimes you get one,


Just press the key in the middle of the 4 arrow keys (I think it is
called the home key). When you are in a place where the virtual
keyboard can be used, this will display the full virtual
keyboard. Other than the fact that you don't see the full screen, I
find it very practical for typing text.

I often used it in conjunction with remember,and to type the odd
email. Way more useful than the iTouch keyboard.

 Adam> sometimes the other.  In normal text fields it's not too bad, but in
 Adam> the xterm app it's almost impossible to get a finger keyboard.

how are you trying to get it?


-- 
--
Daniel M. German                  
http://turingmachine.org/
http://silvernegative.com/
dmg (at) uvic (dot) ca
replace (at) with @ and (dot) with .

Re: emacs on the N800

[Adam Spiers]

On Fri, Dec 14, 2007 at 10:09:04AM +0000, Adam Spiers wrote:
> The physical keyboard has the following by default:
> 
>   Key          Event reported by xev
>   ----------------------------------
>   Fn           ISO_Level3_Shift
>   Left Shift   Shift_L
>   Right Shift  Shift_L :-(
>   Chr          Multi_key
>   Ctrl         Control_R
>   Enter        KP_Enter
>   d-pad centre Enter
> 
> Shame that Right Shift doesn't generate Shift_R - could have rebound
> one of the shifts as Meta in that case.  Maybe this is tweakable at a
> lower level rather than being hard-wired in the circuits though.

Sorry, I should have been more precise.  The shift keys both generate
keycode 50, which is mapped to keysym Shift_L.

Re: emacs on the N800

[Adam Spiers]

On Fri, Dec 14, 2007 at 02:23:23AM -0800, Daniel M German wrote:
> 
>  >> Unless Adam tells me that the physical keyboard is not as useful as he
>  >> first thought (maybe for the reasons I mention here), I'll go for N810.
> 
>  Adam> Entering text by tapping can be very frustrating in certain
>  Adam> situations, so I suspect I'd miss having the physical keyboard.  The
>  Adam> selection of the small tap keyboard for stylus and the large finger
>  Adam> keyboard seems to be quite hard to control - sometimes you get one,
> 
> Just press the key in the middle of the 4 arrow keys (I think it is
> called the home key). When you are in a place where the virtual
> keyboard can be used, this will display the full virtual
> keyboard.

On the N810, you have to slide the physical keyboard out to get access
to the d-pad and the button in the middle, and if you've done that,
you might as well use the physical keyboard :-/

>  Adam> sometimes the other.  In normal text fields it's not too bad, but in
>  Adam> the xterm app it's almost impossible to get a finger keyboard.
> 
> how are you trying to get it?

According to the docs, it should just require a finger press (as
opposed to a stylus press) on a text input field, although in practice
it seems that a double tap works better.  It works fairly reliably for
text input fields, but with the xterm there is no text input field,
and any tap on the terminal will start selecting text instead.

Re: emacs on the N800

[Bastien]

Adam Spiers <orgmode@adamspiers.org> writes:

>>  Adam> Entering text by tapping can be very frustrating in certain
>>  Adam> situations, so I suspect I'd miss having the physical keyboard.  The
>>  Adam> selection of the small tap keyboard for stylus and the large finger
>>  Adam> keyboard seems to be quite hard to control - sometimes you get one,
>> 
>> Just press the key in the middle of the 4 arrow keys (I think it is
>> called the home key). When you are in a place where the virtual
>> keyboard can be used, this will display the full virtual
>> keyboard.
>
> On the N810, you have to slide the physical keyboard out to get access
> to the d-pad and the button in the middle, and if you've done that,
> you might as well use the physical keyboard :-/

Huh.  This is exactly the kind of thing that makes the decision
difficult.  And yes, I have some willpower and can refrain myself 
for unpacking the toy, but I'm running short of time!

Anyway.  Will handle this as a grown-up.  Thanks for all this useful
input.  Hopefully I'll contribute to the Emacs+N8[01]00 buzz somehow.

-- 
Bastien

Re: emacs on the N800

[Bastien]

Hi,

finally I didn't switch to the N810.  The N800 already fits most of my
"needs" (who really need such a tool?).  

Daniel M German <dmg@uvic.ca> writes:

> I can provide a tar file for /usr/local with emacs in it. But I don't
> have it packaged, thought. I don't now how to do i.

Regarding this, i've found this resource:

  http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-lob800-1.html

Check the "Creating maemo packages" section - perhaps someone could make
an Emacs 23 package and see if org-mouse is working?  I've been fiddling
too much with the device for now !

-- 
Bastien

Re: emacs on the N800

[Adam Spiers]

On Sat, Dec 22, 2007 at 05:05:16PM +0100, Bastien wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> finally I didn't switch to the N810.  The N800 already fits most of my
> "needs" (who really need such a tool?).  
> 
> Daniel M German <dmg@uvic.ca> writes:
> 
> > I can provide a tar file for /usr/local with emacs in it. But I don't
> > have it packaged, thought. I don't now how to do i.

I have compiled and successfully run emacs 22.1 with GTK inside the
Chinook (maemo 4.0) x86 scratchbox environment:

  http://www.adamspiers.org/maemo/maemacs.png

It was impressively easy using the VMware-based SDK VM image.  Next
step is to recompile for the Chinook ARMEL target and build a .deb to
test on the N810 itself.  Note that there is already a project started
with a cute name by someone else with the same goals:

  https://garage.maemo.org/projects/maemacs

He accepted me as a developer on the project so hopefully we can work
together.

> Regarding this, i've found this resource:
> 
>   http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-lob800-1.html
> 
> Check the "Creating maemo packages" section - perhaps someone could make
> an Emacs 23 package and see if org-mouse is working?  I've been fiddling
> too much with the device for now !

I am certainly intending to try that very soon.  The breadth and depth
of developer resources for maemo is extremely impressive:

  http://maemo.org/development/documentation/

which fills me with confidence that the platform will continue to
thrive and that it will prove a very useful little toy^H^H^Htool ;-)

Re: emacs on the N800

[Adam Spiers]

On Thu, Dec 13, 2007 at 04:27:16PM +0000, Adam Spiers wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 12, 2007 at 09:43:18AM -0800, Daniel M German wrote:
> > Adam Spiers twisted the bytes to say:
> >  >> On the other hand I have read that emacs23 has support for this type
> >  >> of devices, but I have not compiled it yet.
> > 
> >  Adam> Interesting!  Do you have any more details on the kind of extra support?
> > 
> > No idea. Just one comment in the maemo users mailing list.
> 
> Hmm, couldn't see it here:
> 
>    http://search.gmane.org/?query=emacs&group=gmane.comp.handhelds.maemo.user
> 
> Got a URL?

Ahah, is this what you were thinking of?

  http://djcbflux.blogspot.com/2007/12/maemacs.html

Re: emacs on the N800

[Bastien]

Adam Spiers <orgmode@adamspiers.org> writes:

R> On Thu, Dec 13, 2007 at 04:27:16PM +0000, Adam Spiers wrote:
>> On Wed, Dec 12, 2007 at 09:43:18AM -0800, Daniel M German wrote:
>> > Adam Spiers twisted the bytes to say:
>> >  >> On the other hand I have read that emacs23 has support for this type
>> >  >> of devices, but I have not compiled it yet.
>> > 
>> >  Adam> Interesting!  Do you have any more details on the kind of extra support?
>> > 
>> > No idea. Just one comment in the maemo users mailing list.
>> 
>> Hmm, couldn't see it here:
>> 
>>    http://search.gmane.org/?query=emacs&group=gmane.comp.handhelds.maemo.user
>> 
>> Got a URL?
>
> Ahah, is this what you were thinking of?
>
>   http://djcbflux.blogspot.com/2007/12/maemacs.html

Well caught!  Hopefully he will join your effort in building Emacs for
maemo (I hope I will too someday.)

-- 
Bastien