From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Sascha Wilde Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Enabling Transient Mark Mode by default Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 13:27:17 +0100 Message-ID: References: <87myq4saw1.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <878x1ov227.fsf@jurta.org> <878x1os6mt.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <47B39231.8010108@gmail.com> <200802151711.m1FHB3Y3008798@sallyv1.ics.uci.edu> <200802171658.m1HGwQ4h011067@sallyv1.ics.uci.edu> <20080219085231.GA1032@muc.de> <200802190938.m1J9ccVg016565@sallyv1.ics.uci.edu> <20080219190127.GA1106@muc.de> <877ih0o9dx.fsf@catnip.gol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1203510489 30596 80.91.229.12 (20 Feb 2008 12:28:09 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 12:28:09 +0000 (UTC) Cc: lennart.borgman@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, juri@jurta.org, dann@ics.uci.edu, storm@cua.dk, acm@muc.de, Miles Bader To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Feb 20 13:28:32 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1JRo3e-0000ie-I7 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 13:28:18 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JRo39-0002Lg-L5 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 07:27:47 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JRo36-0002Kd-1f for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 07:27:44 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JRo34-0002Ij-0r for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 07:27:43 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JRo33-0002IV-PC for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 07:27:41 -0500 Original-Received: from mail2.sha-bang.de ([78.47.120.114] helo=mail.sha-bang.de) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1JRo2v-00010p-Dt; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 07:27:33 -0500 Original-Received: from kenny.sha-bang.de (xdslp020.osnanet.de [82.149.190.20]) by mail.sha-bang.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE69C55A; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 13:37:27 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from wilde by kenny.sha-bang.de with local (Sha Bang MUA v.0711184.68) ID 1JRo2o-0007NQ-Ca; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 13:27:26 +0100 In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Wed, 20 Feb 2008 03:59:29 -0500") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.60 (gnu/linux) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:89681 Archived-At: --=-=-= Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Richard Stallman wrote: > > In otherwords, and IMAO, Transient Mark Mode, while good enough for= those > > who consciously chose to enable it, needs fixing before becoming a > > default, if that is to happen. > > I consider it unacceptable, without mark-even-if-inactive. However, > te change that was installed included making mark-even-if-inactive > default to t. That might be ok. But the person who did it jumped the > gun. When starting a freshly build Emacs this morning I was somewhat shocked by the fact that transient-mark-mode suddenly became default. It's not that much of a problem for a simple (transient-mark-mode -1) in .emacs fixes it. But on the other hand I'm still missing a good reason for activating it in the first place (after skimming briefly over this thread). And "it might be ok" is not equal to "it's a good thing to do", IMO. I think we are facing a more general strategic problem here: One has to turn of more and more features, to get back the traditional Emacsian behavior (which I consider the best in many cases). The policy for Emacs once seemed to be (I don't recall if it was officially stated) to be rather puristic per default and leave it to the user to turn on all the bells and whistles and blinken light he wants.=20=20 This is a good thing IMO and I would appreciate if less features would be turned into defaults (even if many of them are surely useful). I for one prefer to look into the manual to learn how to turn some great feature on, than to feel forced to search for a way to turn a feature of, which I consider annoying... cheers sascha =2D-=20 Sascha Wilde=20 Hi! I'm a .signature *virus*! Copy me into your ~/.signature to help me spr= ead! --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFHvByuchutvmkRUCQRAtp2AJ0QqD5I4d6nrozEsbFKCONd73WOtgCfbVOP 7DmP2sr+UiYlkC62IWPzdyI= =jOn+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--