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From: Sascha Wilde <wilde@sha-bang.de>
To: rms@gnu.org
Cc: lennart.borgman@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, juri@jurta.org,
	dann@ics.uci.edu, storm@cua.dk, acm@muc.de,
	Miles Bader <miles@gnu.org>
Subject: Re: Enabling Transient Mark Mode by default
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 13:27:17 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <m2d4qrertm.fsf@kenny.sha-bang.de> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <E1JRknZ-0006HM-GX@fencepost.gnu.org> (Richard Stallman's message of "Wed, 20 Feb 2008 03:59:29 -0500")

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1763 bytes --]

Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> wrote:

>     > In otherwords, and IMAO, Transient Mark Mode, while good enough for those
>     > who consciously chose to enable it, needs fixing before becoming a
>     > default, if that is to happen.
>
> I consider it unacceptable, without mark-even-if-inactive.  However,
> te change that was installed included making mark-even-if-inactive
> default to t.  That might be ok.  But the person who did it jumped the
> gun.

When starting a freshly build Emacs this morning I was somewhat shocked
by the fact that transient-mark-mode suddenly became default.

It's not that much of a problem for a simple (transient-mark-mode -1) in
.emacs fixes it.  But on the other hand I'm still missing a good reason
for activating it in the first place (after skimming briefly over this
thread).  And "it might be ok" is not equal to "it's a good thing to do",
IMO.

I think we are facing a more general strategic problem here:

One has to turn of more and more features, to get back the traditional
Emacsian behavior (which I consider the best in many cases).  The policy
for Emacs once seemed to be (I don't recall if it was officially stated)
to be rather puristic per default and leave it to the user to turn on
all the bells and whistles and blinken light he wants.  

This is a good thing IMO and I would appreciate if less features would
be turned into defaults (even if many of them are surely useful).

I for one prefer to look into the manual to learn how to turn some great
feature on, than to feel forced to search for a way to turn a feature of,
which I consider annoying...

cheers
sascha
-- 
Sascha Wilde 
Hi! I'm a .signature *virus*! Copy me into your ~/.signature to help me spread!

[-- Attachment #2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 188 bytes --]

  reply	other threads:[~2008-02-20 12:27 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 274+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2006-08-28  7:48 change cursor type when idle Drew Adams
2006-08-28  9:54 ` Kim F. Storm
2006-08-28 15:00   ` Drew Adams
2006-08-28 15:30     ` Lennart Borgman
2006-08-28 16:08       ` David Hansen
2006-08-28 16:09       ` Drew Adams
2006-08-28 16:21         ` Lennart Borgman
2006-08-28 16:58           ` Drew Adams
2006-08-28 21:27             ` Juri Linkov
2006-08-28 23:13               ` Drew Adams
2006-08-29 20:27                 ` Juri Linkov
2006-08-29 20:51                   ` Drew Adams
2006-08-29 13:51               ` Mathias Dahl
2006-08-29 13:59                 ` Drew Adams
2006-08-29 20:17                   ` Kevin Rodgers
2006-08-28 21:06       ` Kim F. Storm
2006-08-28 21:44   ` Kim F. Storm
2006-08-29  1:18     ` Luc Teirlinck
2006-08-29  7:44       ` Kim F. Storm
2006-08-29 13:38         ` Drew Adams
2006-08-28 22:10 ` Richard Stallman
2007-07-01 20:24   ` Drew Adams
2007-07-02 19:47     ` Richard Stallman
2008-02-11  7:48     ` Drew Adams
2008-02-11 10:11       ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2008-02-13  0:25         ` Richard Stallman
2008-02-11 21:10       ` Richard Stallman
2008-02-12 14:30         ` Dan Nicolaescu
2008-02-12 14:43           ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-02-12 15:10             ` Dan Nicolaescu
2008-02-12 15:23               ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-02-12 16:20                 ` Dan Nicolaescu
2008-02-12 16:28                   ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-02-12 16:43                     ` Dan Nicolaescu
2008-02-12 17:12                       ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-02-12 18:07                         ` Dan Nicolaescu
2008-02-12 18:20                           ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-02-12 18:34                             ` Drew Adams
2008-02-12 19:34                               ` Juri Linkov
2008-02-12 21:45                               ` Juri Linkov
2008-02-12 18:44                             ` Dan Nicolaescu
2008-02-12 20:54                               ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-02-12 15:19           ` Drew Adams
2008-02-12 15:35             ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-02-12 16:11             ` Dan Nicolaescu
2008-02-12 16:21               ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-02-12 16:27                 ` David Kastrup
2008-02-12 16:36                   ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-02-12 16:55                 ` Dan Nicolaescu
2008-02-12 17:14                   ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-02-12 17:45             ` Richard Stallman
2008-02-13 11:52               ` Kim F. Storm
2008-02-13 15:45                 ` Stefan Monnier
2008-02-13 16:04                   ` CUA-mode features and documenation (was: Re: change cursor type when idle) Kim F. Storm
2008-02-13 16:23                     ` Dan Nicolaescu
2008-02-13 22:45                       ` CUA-mode features and documenation Juri Linkov
2008-02-13 22:59                         ` Dan Nicolaescu
2008-02-13 23:18                         ` Miles Bader
2008-02-14  0:01                           ` Juri Linkov
2008-02-14  0:50                             ` Miles Bader
2008-02-14  0:58                               ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-02-14  1:12                                 ` Miles Bader
2008-02-14 18:10                                 ` Richard Stallman
2008-02-15 17:11                                   ` Dan Nicolaescu
2008-02-17 13:22                                     ` Richard Stallman
2008-02-17 18:05                                       ` Drew Adams
2008-02-18 11:40                                         ` Richard Stallman
2008-02-18 13:44                                         ` Kim F. Storm
2008-02-18 15:52                                           ` Drew Adams
2008-02-17 19:51                                       ` Miles Bader
2008-02-17 22:24                                         ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-02-17 22:30                                           ` Miles Bader
2008-02-18 13:48                                             ` Kim F. Storm
2008-02-17 13:22                                     ` Richard Stallman
2008-02-17 16:58                                       ` Dan Nicolaescu
2008-02-17 18:06                                         ` Drew Adams
2008-02-18 11:40                                         ` Richard Stallman
2008-02-19  8:52                                         ` Enabling Transient Mark Mode by default [Re: CUA-mode features and documenation] Alan Mackenzie
2008-02-19  9:38                                           ` Dan Nicolaescu
2008-02-19 19:01                                             ` Enabling Transient Mark Mode by default Alan Mackenzie
2008-02-19 20:41                                               ` Stefan Monnier
2008-02-19 22:43                                               ` Miles Bader
2008-02-19 23:45                                                 ` Mathias Dahl
2008-02-19 23:49                                                   ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-02-20  0:12                                                     ` David Kastrup
2008-02-20  0:19                                                       ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-02-20  0:30                                                         ` David Kastrup
2008-02-20  0:49                                                           ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-02-20  7:48                                                             ` David Kastrup
2008-02-20  0:16                                                     ` Miles Bader
2008-02-20  3:49                                                     ` Stefan Monnier
2008-02-20  9:56                                                     ` Mathias Dahl
2008-02-20 16:32                                                       ` CUA-*mode (was: Enabling Transient Mark Mode by default) Stefan Monnier
2008-02-20 17:27                                                         ` Mathias Dahl
2008-02-20  8:59                                                 ` Enabling Transient Mark Mode by default Richard Stallman
2008-02-20 12:27                                                   ` Sascha Wilde [this message]
2008-02-20 12:52                                                     ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-02-20 13:09                                                       ` David Kastrup
2008-02-20 14:33                                                         ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-02-20 15:11                                                           ` David Kastrup
2008-02-20 15:43                                                             ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-02-20 15:55                                                       ` David Reitter
2008-02-20 16:04                                                         ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-02-20 16:27                                                           ` David Reitter
2008-02-21 15:34                                                             ` Dan Nicolaescu
2008-02-20 16:23                                                         ` David Kastrup
2008-02-21  3:52                                                         ` Provide different sets of .emacs [Was: Enabling Transient Mark Mode by default] William Xu
2008-02-21  4:04                                                           ` Provide different sets of .emacs William Xu
2008-02-20 16:14                                                       ` Enabling Transient Mark Mode by default Mathias Dahl
2008-02-20 16:27                                                         ` David Kastrup
2008-02-20 17:21                                                           ` Mathias Dahl
2008-02-20 17:30                                                             ` David Kastrup
2008-02-20 20:48                                                               ` Mathias Dahl
2008-02-20 21:07                                                                 ` David Kastrup
2008-02-20 16:52                                                     ` Stefan Monnier
2008-02-20 17:00                                                       ` David Kastrup
2008-02-20 17:58                                                         ` Stefan Monnier
2008-02-20 19:30                                                           ` David De La Harpe Golden
2008-02-20 20:09                                                             ` David Kastrup
2008-02-20 20:41                                                               ` David De La Harpe Golden
2008-02-21 17:45                                                                 ` Juri Linkov
2008-02-21 23:01                                                                   ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-02-21 23:24                                                                     ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-02-22  3:18                                                                   ` Miles Bader
     [not found]                                                                     ` <8e24944a0802212139r2bae3597ke49c5c6da65da445@mail.gmail.com>
2008-02-22  5:49                                                                       ` Fwd: " David De La Harpe Golden
2008-02-22 22:57                                                                     ` Richard Stallman
2008-02-23  0:09                                                                       ` Miles Bader
2008-02-23  0:31                                                                         ` Mike Mattie
2008-02-23  1:02                                                                           ` Drew Adams
2008-02-23  1:20                                                                         ` Bastien
2008-02-23  9:16                                                                           ` Sascha Wilde
2008-02-23  1:17                                                                       ` Bastien
2008-02-23  5:16                                                                         ` Stefan Monnier
2008-02-23 10:30                                                                           ` Bastien
2008-02-23 19:29                                                                         ` Richard Stallman
2008-02-20 21:44                                                           ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-02-21  9:16                                                             ` Richard Stallman
2008-02-21  9:16                                                           ` Richard Stallman
2008-02-21 14:31                                                             ` Stefan Monnier
2008-02-22 10:47                                                               ` Bastien
2008-02-22 13:11                                                                 ` Sascha Wilde
2008-02-22 14:16                                                                   ` Bastien Guerry
2008-02-22 14:48                                                                     ` David De La Harpe Golden
2008-02-22 18:06                                                                       ` Bastien
2008-02-22 15:53                                                                     ` Sascha Wilde
2008-02-22 18:12                                                                       ` Bastien
2008-02-22 22:20                                                                         ` Mike Mattie
2008-02-22 23:09                                                                         ` Mike Mattie
2008-02-23 19:28                                                                         ` Richard Stallman
2008-02-22 14:57                                                                 ` Andreas Schwab
2008-02-22 16:27                                                                 ` Leo
2008-02-22 22:57                                                                 ` Richard Stallman
2008-02-21 22:28                                                           ` Richard Stallman
2008-02-20 17:35                                                       ` Sascha Wilde
2008-02-20 18:04                                                         ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-02-20 19:02                                                         ` Evans Winner
2008-02-20 21:13                                                           ` Jason Earl
2008-02-20 21:24                                                             ` David Kastrup
2008-02-20 22:46                                                               ` David De La Harpe Golden
2008-02-21  7:30                                                                 ` martin rudalics
2008-02-21 22:29                                                                   ` scroll-restore.el Richard Stallman
2008-02-22 16:11                                                                     ` scroll-restore.el David De La Harpe Golden
2008-02-22 19:32                                                                       ` scroll-restore.el martin rudalics
2008-02-22 19:41                                                                         ` scroll-restore.el David De La Harpe Golden
2008-02-22 19:51                                                                           ` scroll-restore.el martin rudalics
2008-02-22 19:26                                                                     ` scroll-restore.el martin rudalics
2008-02-20 23:15                                                               ` Enabling Transient Mark Mode by default Jason Earl
2008-02-20 23:30                                                                 ` David Kastrup
2008-02-21  0:42                                                                   ` Jason Earl
2008-02-21  9:57                                                                     ` David Kastrup
2008-02-21 14:36                                                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2008-02-21 14:41                                                                         ` David Kastrup
2008-02-21 16:13                                                                           ` Stefan Monnier
2008-02-21 16:26                                                                             ` David Kastrup
2008-02-21 17:18                                                                               ` Stefan Monnier
2008-02-21 17:38                                                                                 ` David De La Harpe Golden
2008-02-21 17:52                                                                                   ` David De La Harpe Golden
2008-02-21 21:45                                                                                 ` David Kastrup
2008-02-21 22:24                                                                                   ` Miles Bader
2008-02-21 17:27                                                                             ` Drew Adams
2008-02-21 22:25                                                                               ` Miles Bader
2008-02-21 22:59                                                                                 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-02-21 23:17                                                                                   ` Miles Bader
2008-02-21 23:22                                                                                     ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-02-21 23:39                                                                                       ` Mathias Dahl
2008-02-21 23:45                                                                                         ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-02-21 23:10                                                                                 ` Drew Adams
2008-02-22 10:07                                                                                 ` Andreas Schwab
2008-02-22 12:19                                                                                   ` Tassilo Horn
2008-02-22 12:28                                                                                     ` David Kastrup
2008-02-22 22:57                                                                                       ` Richard Stallman
2008-02-22 23:14                                                                                         ` Stefan Monnier
2008-02-23  0:03                                                                                           ` Miles Bader
2008-02-23  0:14                                                                                             ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-02-23  8:04                                                                                             ` Mathias Dahl
2008-02-23  0:04                                                                                         ` Miles Bader
2008-02-23 19:29                                                                                           ` Richard Stallman
2008-02-23  0:14                                                                                         ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-02-23  0:21                                                                                           ` Miles Bader
2008-02-23  0:46                                                                                           ` Should M-SPC respect `sentence-end-double-space'? Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-02-23  0:46                                                                                             ` Paul Pogonyshev
2008-02-23  3:23                                                                                               ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-02-23  0:52                                                                                             ` Miles Bader
2008-02-23  3:11                                                                                               ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-02-23  3:47                                                                                                 ` Miles Bader
2008-02-23  8:33                                                                                                   ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-02-23 15:47                                                                                                     ` Stefan Monnier
2008-02-23 17:01                                                                                               ` Juri Linkov
2008-02-21 22:28                                                                   ` Enabling Transient Mark Mode by default Richard Stallman
2008-03-01 22:15                                                                     ` Glenn Morris
2008-03-01 22:40                                                                       ` Kim F. Storm
2008-03-02  2:56                                                                       ` Juri Linkov
2008-03-02 17:25                                                                         ` Richard Stallman
2008-03-02  5:51                                                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2008-03-02 16:09                                                                         ` Juri Linkov
2008-03-02 17:25                                                                       ` Richard Stallman
2008-02-21  9:16                                                           ` Richard Stallman
2008-02-21 12:07                                                             ` Robert J. Chassell
2008-02-20 21:15                                                         ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-02-21  9:16                                                           ` Richard Stallman
2008-02-21 15:55                                                             ` Luc Teirlinck
2008-02-22  3:31                                                             ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-02-22 22:57                                                               ` Richard Stallman
2008-02-23  0:08                                                                 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-02-21 22:27                                                         ` Richard Stallman
2008-02-20 19:09                                                       ` Drew Adams
2008-02-21  0:10                                                         ` Miles Bader
2008-02-21 22:28                                                           ` Richard Stallman
2008-02-23 11:00                                                           ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-02-20 20:01                                                       ` Tentative diagnosis of TMM's problem. [Re: Enabling Transient Mark Mode by default] Alan Mackenzie
2008-02-20 20:52                                                         ` Stefan Monnier
2008-02-20 22:16                                                           ` Tentative diagnosis of TMM's problem. [Re: Enabling TransientMark " Drew Adams
2008-02-20 22:32                                                             ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-02-20 22:45                                                               ` Drew Adams
2008-02-21  1:09                                                                 ` David De La Harpe Golden
2008-02-21  1:44                                                                   ` Drew Adams
2008-02-21  8:05                                                               ` Sven Joachim
2008-02-21  0:13                                                             ` Miles Bader
2008-02-21  1:44                                                               ` Drew Adams
2008-02-21  4:56                                                                 ` David De La Harpe Golden
2008-02-21 22:28                                                                 ` Richard Stallman
2008-02-21 17:46                                                               ` Juri Linkov
2008-02-21 22:28                                                               ` Tentative diagnosis of Transient Mark mode's " Richard Stallman
2008-02-21  8:19                                                             ` Tentative diagnosis of TMM's " Alan Mackenzie
2008-02-21  9:43                                                               ` Tentative diagnosis of TMM's problem. [Re: Enabling TransientMarkMode " Drew Adams
2008-02-21 10:54                                                                 ` David Kastrup
2008-02-21 17:10                                                                   ` Drew Adams
2008-02-21 19:28                                                                     ` Sascha Wilde
2008-02-21 21:42                                                                     ` David Kastrup
2008-02-22 11:58                                                                     ` Enabling Transient Mark Mode by default Robert J. Chassell
2008-02-22 14:49                                                                       ` David De La Harpe Golden
2008-02-22 16:37                                                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2008-02-21 10:59                                                                 ` Tentative diagnosis of TMM's problem. [Re: Enabling TransientMarkMode by default] Andreas Schwab
2008-02-21 16:55                                                                   ` Drew Adams
2008-02-21 22:29                                                                 ` Richard Stallman
2008-02-21  8:05                                                           ` Tentative diagnosis of TMM's problem. [Re: Enabling Transient Mark Mode " Alan Mackenzie
2008-02-21 14:54                                                             ` Stefan Monnier
2008-02-21 17:44                                                           ` Tentative diagnosis of TMM's problem Johan Bockgård
2008-02-21 19:21                                                             ` Stefan Monnier
2008-02-21 22:38                                                               ` Johan Bockgård
2008-02-22  1:51                                                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2008-02-21  9:16                                                         ` Tentative diagnosis of TMM's problem. [Re: Enabling Transient Mark Mode by default] Richard Stallman
2008-02-23 11:34                                                           ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-02-24  0:53                                                             ` Richard Stallman
2008-02-20 21:27                                                       ` Enabling Transient Mark Mode by default Juri Linkov
2008-02-19  9:48                                           ` Enabling Transient Mark Mode by default [Re: CUA-mode features and documenation] David Kastrup
2008-02-17 18:11                                     ` CUA-mode features and documenation David De La Harpe Golden
2008-02-14  1:54                               ` Leo
2008-02-13 22:00                 ` change cursor type when idle Richard Stallman
2008-02-14 13:16                   ` Kim F. Storm
2008-02-15  0:03                     ` Richard Stallman
2008-02-12 19:31           ` Juri Linkov
2008-02-12 21:23             ` Miles Bader
2008-02-12 21:42               ` Juri Linkov

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