From: Helmut Eller <eller.helmut@gmail.com>
To: Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org>
Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: clang vs free software
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2014 11:22:30 +0100 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <m2bnyz11qx.fsf@gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <E1W7CEv-0003Mw-4k@fencepost.gnu.org> (Richard Stallman's message of "Sat, 25 Jan 2014 18:02:13 -0500")
On Sun, Jan 26 2014, Richard Stallman wrote:
> Maybe nobody bothers because using clang is easier than to fight with
> FSF policies.
>
> If you mean the policy that we don't let GCC become a platform for
> proprietary compilers, what does it mean to think of this as something
> to "fight"?
With "fight" I mean explaining for the hundredth time that the FSF
policy of introducing artificial technical hurdles to prevent some
nonfree programs does
a) cause more "collateral damage" than it prevents real damage. If
nonfree programs don't have access to the AST then so don't have
free programs.
b) does not actually work. LLVM used GCC as front-end (known as
llvm-gcc) before Clang existed and before GCC had a plugin
mechanism. Today the DragonEgg plugin makes it possible to use GCC
front-ends, e.g. for Fortran or Go, with LLVM as backend. Which
sounds a lot like the thing that the FSF wants to avoid.
IMO, we would be better served with legal hurdles than with technical
hurdles. E.g. the license could say that using GCC as platform for
proprietary compilers (DragonEgg) are not allowed, while using GCC as
platform for free compilers (or editors like Emacs) is allowed and
welcome.
(Clang/LLVM is free software, as far as I can tell. So discouraging
integration of Clang with Emacs has probably not so much to do with a
free/nonfree distinction but more with a gnu/nongnu distinction.)
Helmut
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2014-01-26 10:22 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 256+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2013-11-18 16:13 Emacs completion matches selection UI Ted Zlatanov
2013-11-18 20:00 ` Bozhidar Batsov
2013-11-18 20:54 ` Andreas Röhler
2013-11-18 21:15 ` Ted Zlatanov
2013-11-19 0:43 ` Stefan Monnier
2013-11-19 9:52 ` Dmitry Gutov
2013-11-19 13:41 ` Stefan Monnier
2013-11-19 14:00 ` Dmitry Gutov
2013-11-19 14:58 ` Ted Zlatanov
2013-11-19 17:50 ` Stefan Monnier
2013-11-19 21:07 ` Ted Zlatanov
2013-11-20 0:28 ` Stefan Monnier
2013-11-20 1:30 ` Ted Zlatanov
2013-11-20 3:22 ` Stefan Monnier
2013-11-20 17:52 ` Ted Zlatanov
2013-11-20 19:10 ` Stefan Monnier
2013-11-20 20:00 ` Ted Zlatanov
2013-11-20 15:57 ` Josh
2013-11-21 0:52 ` Juri Linkov
2013-11-21 3:48 ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-11-22 0:10 ` Juri Linkov
2013-11-22 7:36 ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-11-22 12:33 ` Ted Zlatanov
2013-11-25 13:28 ` Ted Zlatanov
2013-11-25 15:18 ` Stefan Monnier
2013-12-16 15:17 ` Ted Zlatanov
2013-12-16 18:35 ` Stefan Monnier
2013-12-16 22:15 ` Ted Zlatanov
2013-12-17 2:10 ` Stefan Monnier
2013-12-17 10:49 ` Ted Zlatanov
2013-12-17 18:29 ` Stefan Monnier
2013-12-17 20:59 ` Ted Zlatanov
2013-12-18 1:58 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2013-12-18 3:09 ` Ted Zlatanov
2013-12-18 4:47 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2013-12-18 14:43 ` Ted Zlatanov
2013-12-18 15:51 ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-12-18 16:38 ` Ted Zlatanov
2013-12-18 17:05 ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-12-18 17:18 ` Ted Zlatanov
2013-12-18 17:37 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2013-12-18 19:05 ` Ted Zlatanov
2013-12-18 21:11 ` chad
2013-12-19 3:40 ` Stefan Monnier
2013-12-19 15:49 ` Ted Zlatanov
2013-12-19 17:30 ` Dmitry Gutov
2013-12-19 18:44 ` Ted Zlatanov
2013-12-19 21:44 ` Dmitry Gutov
2013-12-20 1:15 ` Ted Zlatanov
2013-12-20 3:06 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2013-12-20 3:08 ` Dmitry Gutov
2013-12-20 11:49 ` Ted Zlatanov
2013-12-20 13:18 ` Dmitry Gutov
2013-12-20 14:59 ` Ted Zlatanov
2013-12-22 1:45 ` Stefan Monnier
2013-12-22 2:29 ` Dmitry Gutov
2013-12-22 11:07 ` Stefan Monnier
2013-12-22 16:07 ` Dmitry Gutov
2013-12-22 22:50 ` enabling company-capf support in cfengine.el (was: Emacs completion matches selection UI) Ted Zlatanov
2013-12-23 0:17 ` enabling company-capf support in cfengine.el Dmitry Gutov
2013-12-23 1:11 ` Ted Zlatanov
2013-12-23 1:32 ` Dmitry Gutov
2014-01-16 13:12 ` Dmitry Gutov
2014-01-16 16:06 ` Stefan Monnier
2014-01-16 17:39 ` Dmitry Gutov
2014-01-17 13:04 ` Stefan Monnier
2014-01-18 14:13 ` Dmitry Gutov
2014-01-19 2:37 ` Stefan Monnier
2014-01-19 16:44 ` Dmitry Gutov
2014-01-19 20:19 ` Stefan Monnier
2014-01-19 20:44 ` David Engster
2014-01-20 0:13 ` Dmitry Gutov
2014-01-20 2:14 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2014-01-20 2:39 ` John Yates
2014-01-20 3:22 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2014-01-20 7:10 ` David Kastrup
2014-01-20 14:22 ` John Yates
2014-01-20 14:55 ` David Kastrup
2014-01-20 15:09 ` clang vs free software (was: enabling company-capf support in cfengine.el) Stefan Monnier
2014-01-20 19:47 ` clang vs free software David Engster
2014-01-21 14:42 ` Richard Stallman
2014-01-21 15:02 ` David Kastrup
2014-01-21 15:20 ` Dmitry Gutov
2014-01-22 15:31 ` Richard Stallman
2014-01-22 17:24 ` Dmitry Gutov
2014-01-21 15:34 ` John Yates
2014-01-21 16:00 ` Rüdiger Sonderfeld
2014-01-21 16:25 ` joakim
2014-01-21 16:34 ` Rüdiger Sonderfeld
2014-01-21 16:38 ` joakim
2014-01-21 18:50 ` Rüdiger Sonderfeld
2014-01-21 18:00 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2014-01-21 18:44 ` Rüdiger Sonderfeld
2014-01-23 10:55 ` Richard Stallman
2014-01-23 11:01 ` David Kastrup
2014-01-23 14:26 ` Helmut Eller
2014-01-25 23:02 ` Richard Stallman
2014-01-25 23:28 ` Daniel Colascione
2014-01-26 1:35 ` Lennart Borgman
2014-01-26 6:45 ` David Kastrup
2014-01-26 12:13 ` Daniel Colascione
2014-01-26 12:35 ` Lennart Borgman
2014-01-26 14:45 ` David Kastrup
2014-01-26 20:06 ` Richard Stallman
2014-01-26 20:06 ` Richard Stallman
2014-01-26 10:22 ` Helmut Eller [this message]
2014-01-26 11:12 ` David Kastrup
2014-01-26 12:36 ` Helmut Eller
2014-01-26 14:54 ` David Kastrup
2014-01-26 20:06 ` Richard Stallman
2014-01-26 15:12 ` Stefan Monnier
2014-01-26 15:15 ` Lennart Borgman
2014-01-26 15:35 ` David Kastrup
2014-01-26 15:46 ` Lennart Borgman
2014-01-23 16:35 ` Rüdiger Sonderfeld
2014-01-23 18:04 ` David Engster
2014-01-22 2:06 ` unic0rn
2014-01-20 15:57 ` enabling company-capf support in cfengine.el Stephen J. Turnbull
2014-01-20 3:32 ` Óscar Fuentes
2014-01-20 13:59 ` John Yates
2014-01-20 14:30 ` David Kastrup
2014-01-20 17:01 ` John Yates
2014-01-20 2:17 ` Stefan Monnier
2014-01-19 16:54 ` Dmitry Gutov
2014-01-19 20:21 ` Stefan Monnier
2014-01-19 23:57 ` Dmitry Gutov
2014-01-20 2:20 ` Stefan Monnier
2014-01-20 2:33 ` Dmitry Gutov
2014-01-20 13:41 ` Stefan Monnier
2013-12-23 1:36 ` Emacs completion matches selection UI Stefan Monnier
2013-12-23 2:12 ` Dmitry Gutov
2013-12-23 13:33 ` Stefan Monnier
2013-12-20 1:19 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2013-12-20 1:17 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2013-12-20 14:32 ` Stefan Monnier
2013-12-20 15:54 ` Ted Zlatanov
2013-12-21 3:32 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2013-12-21 4:58 ` Ted Zlatanov
2013-12-22 2:05 ` Stefan Monnier
2013-12-22 23:15 ` Ted Zlatanov
2013-12-23 1:59 ` Stefan Monnier
2013-12-23 12:28 ` Ted Zlatanov
2013-12-23 13:42 ` Stefan Monnier
2013-12-23 14:52 ` Ted Zlatanov
2013-12-30 20:47 ` Toby Cubitt
2013-12-31 0:20 ` Leo Liu
2013-12-31 7:48 ` joakim
2013-12-31 14:30 ` Dmitry Gutov
2013-12-31 15:52 ` Toby Cubitt
2013-12-31 17:45 ` joakim
2014-01-02 18:54 ` Dmitry Gutov
2014-01-02 18:10 ` Stefan Monnier
2014-01-03 17:49 ` Ted Zlatanov
2014-01-03 19:36 ` Stefan Monnier
2014-01-04 0:48 ` Toby Cubitt
2014-01-04 3:45 ` Stefan Monnier
2014-01-06 4:47 ` Toby Cubitt
2014-01-06 23:38 ` Ted Zlatanov
2014-01-07 3:57 ` Toby Cubitt
2014-01-04 9:21 ` João Távora
2014-01-06 23:21 ` Ted Zlatanov
2014-01-02 20:20 ` Dmitry Gutov
2014-01-02 22:58 ` Toby Cubitt
2014-01-03 2:40 ` Stefan Monnier
2014-01-03 14:30 ` Toby Cubitt
2014-01-03 16:23 ` Dmitry Gutov
2014-01-03 16:48 ` Toby Cubitt
2014-01-03 19:32 ` Stefan Monnier
2014-01-03 22:06 ` Toby Cubitt
2014-01-04 3:39 ` Stefan Monnier
2014-01-06 4:00 ` Toby Cubitt
2014-01-03 16:35 ` Toby Cubitt
2014-01-03 17:46 ` Thierry Volpiatto
2014-01-04 2:39 ` Dmitry Gutov
2014-01-04 3:54 ` Stefan Monnier
2014-01-05 4:08 ` Dmitry Gutov
2014-01-05 16:04 ` Stefan Monnier
2014-01-06 4:25 ` Dmitry Gutov
2014-01-06 5:25 ` Toby Cubitt
2014-01-06 2:39 ` Toby Cubitt
2014-01-06 4:03 ` Stefan Monnier
2014-01-06 5:35 ` Toby Cubitt
2014-01-06 5:55 ` Dmitry Gutov
2014-01-06 14:47 ` Stefan Monnier
2014-01-06 15:54 ` Toby Cubitt
2014-01-06 20:53 ` Stefan Monnier
2014-01-06 23:45 ` Ted Zlatanov
2014-01-06 7:36 ` Dmitry Gutov
2014-01-06 15:51 ` Toby Cubitt
2014-01-07 0:17 ` Dmitry Gutov
2014-01-07 3:32 ` Toby Cubitt
2014-01-07 23:23 ` Dmitry Gutov
2014-01-08 2:58 ` Toby Cubitt
2014-01-08 3:38 ` Bob Bobeck
2014-01-08 3:47 ` Toby Cubitt
2014-01-08 9:27 ` Richard Stallman
2014-01-08 15:37 ` Ted Zlatanov
2014-01-08 4:49 ` Stefan Monnier
2014-01-08 15:33 ` Ted Zlatanov
2014-01-08 16:11 ` Toby Cubitt
2014-01-09 7:12 ` Dmitry Gutov
2013-12-23 13:45 ` John Yates
2013-12-23 16:02 ` Stefan Monnier
2013-12-24 2:47 ` John Yates
2013-12-28 14:02 ` Stefan Monnier
2013-12-28 16:43 ` John Yates
2013-12-30 12:55 ` Stefan Monnier
2013-12-30 16:32 ` João Távora
2014-01-04 23:02 ` Stefan Monnier
2014-01-05 2:13 ` João Távora
2014-01-05 16:11 ` Stefan Monnier
2014-01-06 23:48 ` Ted Zlatanov
2014-01-07 3:15 ` Stefan Monnier
2014-01-07 16:13 ` Ted Zlatanov
2014-01-07 17:18 ` João Távora
2014-01-07 18:10 ` Josh
2014-01-07 19:42 ` David Kastrup
2014-01-08 3:54 ` Josh
2014-01-07 3:16 ` Stefan Monnier
2014-01-07 16:12 ` Ted Zlatanov
2013-12-28 15:59 ` João Távora
2013-12-28 17:00 ` John Yates
2013-12-28 17:40 ` Josh
2013-12-19 4:53 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2013-12-19 5:45 ` chad
2013-12-19 7:03 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2013-12-19 7:59 ` Aaron Ecay
2013-12-19 15:29 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2013-12-19 17:41 ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-12-19 18:46 ` Ted Zlatanov
2013-12-20 0:53 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2013-12-19 6:23 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2013-11-19 16:24 ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-11-21 10:17 ` Dmitry Gutov
2013-11-21 16:30 ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-11-22 5:38 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2013-11-22 15:19 ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-11-23 10:03 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2013-11-19 13:48 ` Ted Zlatanov
2013-11-19 18:03 ` Stefan Monnier
2013-11-20 0:10 ` Gregor Zattler
2013-11-20 1:25 ` Ted Zlatanov
2013-11-20 17:59 ` John Yates
2013-11-19 0:47 ` Juri Linkov
2013-11-19 11:18 ` Tom
2013-11-19 14:00 ` Stefan Monnier
2013-11-20 0:45 ` Juri Linkov
2013-11-20 7:34 ` martin rudalics
2013-11-20 7:50 ` Tom
2013-11-21 0:45 ` Juri Linkov
2013-11-21 7:41 ` martin rudalics
2013-11-22 0:18 ` Juri Linkov
2013-11-22 10:26 ` martin rudalics
2013-11-19 19:44 ` Dmitry Gutov
2013-11-20 7:39 ` Eric Abrahamsen
2013-11-19 17:33 ` Sebastian Wiesner
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