From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Helmut Eller Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Generalizing find-definition Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2014 19:14:55 +0100 Message-ID: References: <20141102151524.0d9c665c@forcix> <20141102172944.0f7944e3@forcix> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1414952146 27646 80.91.229.3 (2 Nov 2014 18:15:46 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2014 18:15:46 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Nov 02 19:15:40 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Xkzgi-0008KP-5L for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 02 Nov 2014 19:15:40 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:58838 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xkzgh-00059O-OV for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 02 Nov 2014 13:15:39 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:44531) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XkzgI-00059J-Hr for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 02 Nov 2014 13:15:20 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XkzgC-0006wE-Jv for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 02 Nov 2014 13:15:14 -0500 Original-Received: from plane.gmane.org ([80.91.229.3]:58604) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XkzgC-0006vt-Df for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 02 Nov 2014 13:15:08 -0500 Original-Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XkzgB-00085m-FP for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 02 Nov 2014 19:15:07 +0100 Original-Received: from dial-181146.pool.broadband44.net ([212.46.181.146]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sun, 02 Nov 2014 19:15:07 +0100 Original-Received: from eller.helmut by dial-181146.pool.broadband44.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sun, 02 Nov 2014 19:15:07 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 49 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: dial-181146.pool.broadband44.net User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.4.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:jyWHovGVrWMiA1w/pUQbdJkrqjw= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 80.91.229.3 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:176239 Archived-At: On Sun, Nov 02 2014, Jorgen Schaefer wrote: > On Sun, 02 Nov 2014 10:34:28 -0500 > Stefan Monnier wrote: > >> > M-* is the standard opposite command for this, so that would be >> > extracted as well. SLIME and a few other modes re-define M-, to be >> > the opposite for M-. instead for easier navigation. How do you >> > feel about swapping the definition of M-, and M-* in etags.el? >> >> That's incompatible with the current M-, binding. >> What would then be the equivalent of the current M-, ? > > The idea would be to simply swap M-, and M-*, so M-* would then be > `tags-loop-continue'. As I do not use tags, I do not know how often > that command is used and whether M-* is too inconvenient for this, > though. In SLIME, M-, and M-* do the same thing. Using M-, for pop-tag-mark is IMO very desirable, because on most keyboards . and , are on adjacent keys and it's easy, almost pleasant, to jump to a definition and back -- at least in the case when there's a unique match. We keep the binding for M-* around mostly because some users have stored it in their muscle memory. But it seems to me that M-* is quite hard to press (on US keyboards) and if it weren't for tradition, we wouldn't bind it at all. SLIME will definitely keep the M-./M-, pair, well knowing that it's incompatible with the binding for tags-loop-continue. In my experience, tags-loop-continue is rather hard to use and I have long argued to get rid of it and replace it with a better UI. E.g. tags-loop-continue must be pressed multiple times just to find out at the end that none of the offered candidates was relevant. SLIME does it differently: the list of all candidates is displayed in a separate buffer with one candidate per line; a bit like the results of a search engine like Google. The user must then move the cursor to the interesting line and press RET to actually jump to the definition. If there's only a single candidate, then there's no need to display the list and we can jump to the candidate right away. SLIME has no analog to tags-loop-continue (and no key binding for it) because it's not needed; at least nobody ever asked for such a command. For SLIME, we would happily use the "standard" find-definition infrastructure if it comes with a good UI. The tags-loop-continue based design is not acceptable for us. Helmut